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The Saga of 71
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Picture of BarthBluesmobile
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1971!

That is back a bit. So, I wouldn't expect all the exhaust lobes to wear out, at least not at the same time.

Things I ponder: how is the oil pressure? Perhaps the oil pump is tired, perhaps the bearings are extremely worn. If you don't have an oil pressure gauge, add one and that will help with the diagnosis.

It is good that you got a new cam and lifters. You might also want to consider a set of cam bearings as well. Those can be replaced from the front of the engine as part of the cam job.

I'm wondering if the timing chain jumped a tooth or two or three!

If you do the cam job make sure you are "liberal" with the use of assembly lubrication". And be sure to use engine "break in" oil, that has lots and lots of zinc added.

How many miles is on this engine?

Look at the bright side, you don't have to say, "I have nothing to do today".

Happy Motoring!
Matt


1987 Barth 27' P32 Chassis
Former State Police Command Post
Chevrolet 454
Weiand Manifold, Crane Cam, Gibson Exhaust
 
Posts: 525 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of BarthBluesmobile
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quote:
not a lot of used 350's around


Some things have changed for finding "big old stuff". Craigslist used to be the place, Ebay was pretty good. There is a volume of postings on Facebook Marketplace.

Overall volume is less, it seems that there are fewer enthusiasts and hot rodders out there.

This is 60 miles north of you,
https://www.facebook.com/marke...item/372302549080858

There's a guy in Clinton with a 454!
:-)

Matt


1987 Barth 27' P32 Chassis
Former State Police Command Post
Chevrolet 454
Weiand Manifold, Crane Cam, Gibson Exhaust
 
Posts: 525 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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The thing that is weird is, that all the intake valves seem to be opening properly and none of the exhaust valves open even 1/3 of the way they do! One would think the intake would wear also!

As soon we get another decent day, gonna pull the intake manifold and try to find out what's the haps!!

Do have an oil pressure gage, runs about 30 psi at idle and 35 at higher RPM's! Engine has less than 65K miles on it.


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/24
Picture of Steve VW
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I'm betting most of the stuck valves were exhaust valves? More drag? It will be interesting to examine that camshaft... hmm


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 325+ hp
 
Posts: 5179 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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The warmer days have returned, unfortunately I slept funny last night and one of my ankles is killing me. So no 71 work today maybe tomorrow!

That rodent from Puns-whatever, might have gotten it right this year. Was down by the Mississippi river and saw the first flights of the spring return of the White Pelicans. The weather-folks say we have a week of mild temps too.

Maybe you snow birds might want an early return this year!!


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
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We started losing the pelicans a couple of weeks ago. The mute and great white swans preceded them and the transient bald eagles should be arriving soon.
 
Posts: 1068 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Member Since: 10-09-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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Have only seen our resident Bald Eagles so far, I have never seen the swans in our area, would be nice if they stopped here.

So got out to work on ole 71 today, pulled the intake manifold and checked around, happy to say the cam and lifters seem in fine shape!

I think my hot rod guy gave me some bad information or I miss interpreted how he told me to adjust the lifters. They are just to darn loose. Some worse than others. Gonna set them the old fashion way with .5 turn of preload from a Zero lash push rod. Put this thing back together and hit the road on my new tires!!!


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
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As happy as yesterday was, today the pits!

Reset all the lifters to zero lash, turned the engine over using the starter, most of the lifter bodies raised about 1/4 inch out of each holder, now the tears, 5 of them only raised about 1/8 inch above the holder. This observation is on the lifter body, it also translates to less valve spring compression. Pretty sure this is a sign of lobe wear. Also see some blowby smoke in the exhaust cross over while turning the engine over with the starter.

So back to my old problem new engine or cam, the blowby tells me another engine is in order. Gonna go to the salvage yard and check on that engine that is supposed to have 22k on a rebuild.

The flight of pelicans unpacked their bedrolls and are camping out on a sandbar insight of the downtown park resting their weary wings!


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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Made the costly decision, bought a salvage yard engine, used Good Wrench crate engine a bit newer 350 block than mine maybe from the 80/90 range. not sure of the mileage. Pick it up tomorrow, do a compression test and give it the once-over. It did turn over nice and smoothly and the distributor rotated. Unable to fire it up no spark, but 71 has a new HEI that can be swapped. Decided that old age will not let me do the engine swap, found a truck repair shop in town that will take on the job. Kinda a shame after all the work put in this engine.

This used engine has a two barrel carburetor, so will swap the intake manifold and Tim's 4 barrel from 71.

Have to figure out how to get 71 to the repair shop and go pick up the new engine. Think I might have found a guy to tow it, but he has not committed yet.

Gonna try to get all the accessory brackets from the truck the used engine came from, do not like the ones that are in 71. Truck guy wants me to get a new radiator but I would like to keep this one.

If any of you guys have any spare cash, am open!!! LOL NO just a joke, am sure having this thing fixed will be worth the outlay!

Still have all the creature comforts and generator to repair.


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of BarthBluesmobile
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quote:
the 80/90 range


Hi Duane, are you using the heads you bought earlier? Or the heads on this engine now? Around 1987, Chevrolet changed the bolt pattern for the intake manifold, to cylinder head interface. All bolts are in the same position, but some are angled differently. You need to have an intake manifold compatible with your heads. I think this might have been done at the same time that the cylinder heads went to having the valve cover bolts in the center instead of along the perimeter.

About the brackets, it would be great to go with a serpentine system from the Chevy trucks of that era. I think that it puts the alternator on the driver side, so that would be a concern for "reengineering".

Look for the stamping on the pad on the front of the passenger side of the block, and the codes that are there can tell you about the engine. The "big thing" to learn is whether you have flat top pistons or dished pistons. Were you thinking of "doing the cam" on this new engine?

It's time for things to go your way!
Matt


1987 Barth 27' P32 Chassis
Former State Police Command Post
Chevrolet 454
Weiand Manifold, Crane Cam, Gibson Exhaust
 
Posts: 525 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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Wow! Matt, you have opened a whole new world. Will check the intake fit. No, was not going to change the cam or heads. The valve cover bolts are on the perimeter! This engine has the same belt drive system as mine, two belts drive the water pump and alternator. One drives the power steering. I removed the A/C from 71 and the donor truck does not have A/C.

Am considering a new timing chain, gears, harmonic balancer and of course water pump. Hopefully it looks clean around the lifter area, so I do not need to pull the oil pan and check the screen and oil pump.


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of BarthBluesmobile
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quote:
so I do not need to pull the oil pan


there is a bit more to the story! you noted the interest in changing the timing chain... So to pull the timing chain cover, you need to pull the oil pan. In the picture you can see how the cover has a flange around the crankshaft sprocket region to make it less likely to leak oil.

So look at it from the positive perspective, you have a chance to install new oil pan gaskets to better protect against leaks. And you can also have the chance to go with a new high volume oil pump. Does your rig have an oil cooler? Chevy 350 oil pumps are very "easily" priced.

Get that stamping on the front of the block. Some aftermarket timing chain and gear sets allow for changing the timing on the camshaft by a degree or two. Steve might have ideas about this, but I think I read we'd advance the camshaft for better torque at low RPMs, delay it for better high end. In any case, you will have no better time to change your camshaft than now, so you'd want to know what lift and duration you are going with, and that will be indicated by the stamping. We also want to be absolutely certain that you aren't being provided with a 305 instead of a 350. From the outside, the only difference is the shape of the flywheel flange on the crankshaft.

I wish I was closer to you!

Happy Motoring!
Matt


1987 Barth 27' P32 Chassis
Former State Police Command Post
Chevrolet 454
Weiand Manifold, Crane Cam, Gibson Exhaust


chevy 350 timing cover
 
Posts: 525 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/23
Picture of Duane88
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Matt, this is getting more complex than I bargained for! This engine has a newer block with a one piece rear seal, but the heads are the older style and should fit my intake manifold. There is not any sign of oil leakage anywhere on the engine.

The whole reason to just not rebuild my existing engine was to not turn this into a hassle, well past that stage! Have to change the manifold and water pump. The rear crankshaft seal looks in good shape but will change anyway it is easy to get at because this was a stick shift truck, and a flex plate will replace the flywheel. The flex plate off my old engine will not fit the crankshaft bolt pattern so they gave me one that should work, hope it will bolt to the old torque converter.

The water pump is designed for the two-barrel manifold so that needs to be replaced. The alternator is on the opposite side of the engine and the power steering pump will not let it be mounted that way so have to make that change sides. Hope the old power steering pump brackets will work. Looks like all the drive belt pully's will have to be swapped too.

The oil filter mount needs to swapped from the old engine.

With all this additional work I guess dropping the oil pan is not that big of a deal, might as well get a new harmonic balancer too.

Hope I can rent, borrow, beg an engine stand to do all this. Would let the truck shop do it but it is all stuff I can handle, save a bit.

Still have to tow the Barth to the truck shop, debating on just strap towing it over there if I can find a partner in the crime!!

The salvage yard did the compression check and it looks good! When I pull the intake will take a good look at the cam and lifters, hope to find it is clean in that area, if junky will probably return the engine.


1971 24 ft Barth Continental
P30 chassis
350 engine
 
Posts: 2054 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/24
Picture of Steve VW
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I think you made a wise choice with another engine. Swapping the manifold is a nuisance but it means you can inspect the cam for no more labor. With good compression, and not too sludgy inside you should be good to go. I would do that rear main for sure.

Considering the time you've already spent, getting that engine right in makes sense. Git er done...

Part of me says check the cam and chain, etc. Now the pan is off. Might as well do the oil pump and maybe some bearings. Well, maybe pull the heads get the valves ground. Then, of course you can pull the pistons, hone lightly, reinstall with new rings..... oh boy...head bang

OTOH, 350's last a long time. As long as compression is balanced, oil pressure good, blowby minimal it should run a long time in your typical intermittent service cycle. Get the brackets and belts working. Your HEI and 4 BBL are good upgrades. Set timing as advanced as you can without knocking.

You'll still have your old engine... a spare block with good heads. You can do all that other stuff to it at your leisure and run the coach in the meantime.

You know your newer engine will be OK with modern nolead junk gas, too.

Good luck with the swap. Thumbs Up


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 325+ hp
 
Posts: 5179 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
Picture of Dana
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Ok

Duane I’ve been very quiet but if you’ve now committed to an engine swap well I have to say.

GAS TANK……………….. before you go hooking up the new motor. Drop that tank and have cleaned. Or here’s a thought. I see used fuel tanks from boats on marketplace often. Aluminum tank. Not sure of the size/gallons but worth a check.

Was trying to think of something witty but messing up all the hard work and effort trying to force use the &4$#$-+&/$ fuel seems like a bad move.

I sometimes hate written communication. You can’t see this comes from the heart and is hopefully helpful. I want to see the 71 at Springfield in June. Issue free! Good Luck!


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1384 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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