quote:

Seriously, is it possible that an "unmodified" coach such as mine never had separate house batteries?

It is more likely that the extra battery you see that starts the generator is also supposed to be a deep cycle storage battery. Obviously, if it came from the factory that way, it is seriously inhibited from doing anything more than an over-nighter with basic electrical needs. It is not uncommon to see two deep cycles in a coach that size without an inverter. The real question you need to ask is how much remote power do I feel I'll need? With that answered you can decide on more 12V storage and whether an inverter is in your future.

You should realize that adding an inverter means more that just the "inverter". You will need another transfer switch to insure isolation of the circuits from the shore power and generator.

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeam-Express:

quote:

Seriously, is it possible that an "unmodified" coach such as mine never had separate house batteries?

It is more likely that the extra battery you see that starts the generator is also supposed to be a deep cycle storage battery. Obviously, if it came from the factory that way, it is seriously inhibited from doing anything more than an over-nighter with basic electrical needs. It is not uncommon to see two deep cycles in a coach that size without an inverter. The real question you need to ask is how much remote power do I feel I'll need? With that answered you can decide on more 12V storage and whether an inverter is in your future.

You should realize that adding an inverter means more that just the "inverter". You will need another transfer switch to insure isolation of the circuits from the shore power and generator.

You are correct, the battery setup is OEM.

An inverter draws power from the battery and converts it to 120 VAC. What good does an inverter do if it draws from a single deep cycle storage battery?

If I install an inverter, don't I need more batteries?

If I install more batteries to power an inverter, would I connect them in parallel with the existing (brand new) storage battery that starts the genset? Or should I install a separate bank of golf cart batteries to power the inverter?

What charging source would I use for a separate bank of golf cart batteries? The existing converter and generator? Where in the charging circuit would the additional transfer switch be located?

(I have a standby generator and auto transfer switch on my house, but the coach sounds like a whole different thing.}

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Castner:
You are correct, the battery setup is OEM.

An inverter draws power from the battery and converts it to 120 VAC. What good does an inverter do if it draws from a single deep cycle storage battery?
The need for battery capacity depends on both inverter current draw and length of time in use.

If I install an inverter, don't I need more batteries?

The need for battery capacity depends on both inverter current draw and length of time in use.

quote:

If I install more batteries to power an inverter, would I connect them in parallel with the existing (brand new) storage battery that starts the genset? Or should I install a separate bank of golf cart batteries to power the inverter?

Golf cart batteries have (usually) more storage capacity and are more robust; they would be wired in series - obviously even numbers only for the 6V GC batts.

quote:

What charging source would I use for a separate bank of golf cart batteries? The existing converter and generator? Where in the charging circuit would the additional transfer switch be located?

The GC batts would replace what you call the "generator battery". In your other thread, I posted the typical charging system.

quote:

(I have a standby generator and auto transfer switch on my house, but the coach sounds like a whole different thing.}

That element is the same - there's an auto transfer switch for shore power/generator power (default, however, is generator). Only when the 12 VDC power is added does it diverge.

Steve,

I think you missed what I was trying to point out on what is in your coach currently. You stated that the extra battery you have was to start your generator...I said I'll bet it is your "storage" battery.

You brought up the question of an inverter not me. You could have an inverter with any number of batteries, but normally you would have a larger inverter (like a 3000 Watt one) with something like 4 deep cycle batteries for storage.

There is no perfect answer to how many batteries you need. My Wanderlodge has 6 Group 4D batteries with two 3000 Watt inverters. I could go nearly a week being conservative just on battery power. Serious overkill, but expected in these high end buses.

What you should do is start thinking about what is right for your needs. Do you care about 110V? Do you dry camp much? Do you mind running the generator? What are the power needs of your coach set up?

I guess most of us think heat, a few lights, refer, running water, coffee maker and hot water are the basics. But, all coaches are different in what type of energy provides those basics. So, if your refer is electric and propane, that sets up a small need for electricity compared to an all electric fridge. If your heat is propane, the blower will still use quite a bit of electricity. Hydronic heat uses far less electricity by circulating water that was heated by a diesel burner through efficient pumps. LED TVs use far less energy that old CRT TVs. The list goes on and on.

Your coach starting battery should be isolated from all this as it would be a bad idea to run the starting battery(s) down and not be able to start the coach. So your "house" batteries are the storage bank and the "coach" battery is a non-deep cycle or "Starting" battery.

One last thing that may help visualize the systems and how they play together. Think of all the ways you can either get usable energy, store energy, convert energy, or use energy in your Barth. Perhaps make a diagram. For instance, you can get usable energy by a)plugging into shore power, b) turning on your generator, c) solar.

You can convert energy through an inverter (12V to 110V), or propane to heat, etc. Your generator was actually converting a stored fuel to a usable form of electricity if you want to view it that way.

Just keep mapping this out until your comfortable with what these systems do at a basic physics level then start looking into the more detailed way they accomplish it. In other words, get the 50,000 foot view before you try to understand the view from the ground. Before you know it, you'll be the one doing the explaining.

The amount of House batteries you need depends on how you plan on using your coach. A single Deep dischage Battery might be all you'll ever need if you have shore power. I have 2-105ah. batteries and an 2000w inverter. I power my fridge. (house type electric only ) off of them. At 85 deg. temps I can get about 2 days before recharging. That covers me most of the time. The one 4 day off the grid trip I did, I would fire up the gen. for a couple hours a days to run fridge and charge batteries. Engine alt. output does the job going down the road. Most of the time I have 120v available.
The shore cord on our coach is hardwired and has its own storage compartment. I installed a 50 amp outlet in there. with only 1 leg tied to my inverter. When I stow my shore cord I plug into this outlet. This powers half my panel box. Fridge, TV's, Microwave, Outlet for laptop, on this half. Battery charger/converter is on unused half. This way I don't worry about inverter and shore power ever being hooked up at same time or the inverter trying to charge my batteries.
On second thought, if I could use my inverter to power my converter/charger. Never mind....

Doorman

We seem to have parallel battery threads going..

Would series be better?

.

.

sorry. That just came out.

Actually, it was getting a bit confusing with so many threads on the same basic subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Doorman:
I have 2-105ah. batteries and an 2000w inverter. I power my fridge. (house type electric only ) off of them. At 85 deg. temps I can get about 2 days before recharging.

Which particular fridge are you using?

Everything is OEM. Dometic 12VDC/120VAC/LP.

All the suggestions are really helpful. Sorry about the two threads. I will test the house battery needs by dry camping at home next spring.

One suggestion was replacing the Dometic with a 120 VAC refrig and an inverter. I will give that serious consideration, but then will certainly need more house battery capacity.

quote:

One suggestion was replacing the Dometic with a 120 VAC refrig and an inverter. I will give that serious consideration, but then will certainly need more house battery capacity.

But why? If this one works, you have all the choices in the world. Granted, a newer fridge could be more efficient, but propane is great when remote or traveling.....if it works that is.

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeam-Express:

quote:

One suggestion was replacing the Dometic with a 120 VAC refrig and an inverter. I will give that serious consideration, but then will certainly need more house battery capacity.

But why? If this one works, you have all the choices in the world. Granted, a newer fridge could be more efficient, but propane is great when remote or traveling.....if it works that is.

I'm going to have the LP appliances (furnaces, refrig, water heater) gone over and serviced this week. I will keep the Dometic refrig if it is in good working condition. The coach sat for 15 of its 20 year life without being used.

We're moving right along with making up for 15 years of deferred maintenance while the coach sat at my Dad's farm. The first step was having my local GMC truck shop do the chassis work. The second step was having a reputable RV shop inspect the appliances and subsystems. The result was not much different than I expected:
1. The 3-way Dometic refrigerator is shot (I could replace just the cooling unit, but that doesn't seem like a good bet).
2. The rear roof A/C unit is shot (circuit board).
3. The water heater is shot (will not hold air pressure).
4. The bath ceiling fan is shot and leaking (having caused some water damage in the bath ceiling).
4. The city water connection is shot (check valve does not work).
5. The water pump is shot.
6. The toilet valve is shot.
7. The autofill is shot (does not close off and recirculates water to the tank).
8. The kitchen and shower faucets are shot (cheaper to replace than to pay the rate to repair).
9. The passageway roof vent fan motor mounts are broken but can be repaired (even so, I am thinking of a new unit).
10. The front roof A/C unit appears to work (it's too cold in Wisconsin to really test it) but I am thinking of replacing it along with the rear unit.
11. The passageway skylight has some cracks but is weather tight, so I am thinking of replacing it before leaks start.

The good news is that the water lines are OK.

Total, including labor, will be about $5k, not including replacing the front A/C unit, roof exhaust fan or skylight. I will meet with the mechanic on Monday or Tuesday to get all the details. $1,650 was mentioned for a replacement refrigerator, which seems high. Camping World has Dometic New Generation models on sale for $1k.

I was considering replacing the Dometic refrigerator with a 120 VAC unit and inverter. However, the best bet for getting a replacement that fits the existing cabinetry is to install another Dometic or a Norcold. I'm also not sure that I want to get into the inverter and additional house batteries at this time.

The shop also quoted me $1,300 for a stationary, non-HD satellite antenna or $1,700 for an HD model, which seem high. Camping World has a Winegard MiniMax on sale for $700. I've seen I will also need two new LCD TVs.

Mileage on the coach is $25k and engine hours on the Cummins are 725, so all this seems worthwhile to me. I already installed a new set of Michelins. Total, including the bill from from the GMC truck shop, will be about $12k.

I would welcome any comments, suggestions, advice or otherwise.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Steve

Steve,

First off, I agree this unit is well worth the effort to bring it back. If you have any doubts, dump it now and let someone else love it back to shape.

Next, I'd recommend you tackle the simplest and most damaging elements first, mainly any and all of the leaks. AC units and skylights are easy to replace and then she's all watertight again.

Then, start investing time in two areas, 1) researching deals. Used take outs on EBay or CL, new take outs, salvage yards. I'm not saying buy junk, but you'll be amazed at the good stuff had cheap if you just go looking. Just a few months back I was searching for a braking system for my toad when I saw one on EBay advertised and the guy was in my town. When it didn't sell (he wanted $1000 for the braking system and the tow bar) I contacted him and he said "come get it now, it's all yours for $300, my wife wants it out of here". I then sold the hitch to someone here for $250 as I already had one. So I ended up with a $1000 SMI Air Force One braking system for $50!

Finally, dig in yourself and look for the trouble. The hot water tank could need just a fitting or a small weld. Why not tear it out yourself and diagnose. What do you have to lose? If it's totally shot, you still git the old one out at the very least making the job easier. Most of us here have had technicians at RV shops utter the infamous "Needs complete replacement" line. I don't blame them, people get irritated when they attempt to repair something and it fails, whereas replacing it is a known happy ending. They are smart to think that way, but you and I, as owners, should always try to fix and learn.

ok first off try a "Vue cube" for your satellite TV. They sell at truckstops for around $599, work on Dish or Direct, size of a big box, easy mount, direct themselves and portable (Camping World got them too). Ask Nick for info. second a fridge can be bought for around $1000, you might try Colaw's RV salvage near Springfield MO (they ship), they are gutting wrecked MHs, also for other parts. They got a website. Good luck.

Our new Dometic 2-way was a thousand and change. It works perfect for our needs, electric at the campgrounds and LP at the track, where we usually spend 4-5 days. No switching over or even thinking about it, because it goes to electric when available or LP when not. Gets cold quick and keeps frozen stuf frozen solid. The only down side is it has to be pretty level when parked. The whys of this are discussed elsewhere here. Plastic on the roof can look fine and self destruct at 60 mph, so put all new up vents and covers up there. My 2 cents worth.