I just helped out a neighbor with electrical problems. He had broken a circuit breaker by attempting to loosen a frozen nut on one of the studs. Took him a long weekend to get a new one.

I would suggest getting a can of PB Blaster and putting a drop on every terminal of every circuit breaker you can find. Look in the genset compartment and above the radiator for starters. Perhaps other locations can be shared here.

Do it once a week for a month, then put a wrench on them and work them free. This would be a good time to remove and clean the wire terminals, too. If they don't come free, it would be better to have a problem in your driveway than on a trip. Once they are free, a drop of LPS-3 will keep them corrosion free.

Yeah, I know it's overkill, but I used to maintain airplanes.

Hey Bill, I know this is going to turn out to be a dumb question but.....what would be the reason for removing a circuit breaker? Should I be carrying a spare?

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
It would be better to have a problem in your driveway than on a trip. Once they are free, a drop of LPS-3 will keep them corrosion free.
Yeah, I know it's overkill, but I used to maintain airplanes.

Not overkill - sound advice!

1) If any of your batteries are hooked up to the coach all it's doing now is keeping the clocks running. It does no good to the electrical system to keep power onto the circuits. If there is any moisture in the air the electrical current that's running thru the wires are corroding them from the inside out. This is what gives you the green or red rust inside a wire.

It's killing your alternator and other electrical devices. The batteries should be unhooked.

2) Your batteries should be charged with a pulse type trickle charger that will de-sulfer the batteries.

Sulfation is a natural occurrence in all lead acid batteries including sealed & gel-cel batteries. It's the major cause of early battery failure. When the sulfur in the sulfuric acid forms sulfur crystals it attach to the lead plates and then act as an insulation keeping the battery from accepting a charge. Typical chargers and even smart or automatic chargers can not overcome this phenomena. Sulfation occurs where batteries aren't frequently used or kept up to voltage. Sulfation can occur in brand new batteries in as short of time as a few months. Sulfation is the prime cause of battery failure in RV batteries.

Pulse Charge Technology is patented frequency specific Tuned to the molecular frequency of the sulphur crystal of 3.26 MHz variable boost voltage process used to dissolve sulfate crystals back into the battery's electrolyte solution. All lead-acid batteries are affected by the buildup of these deposits because as they collect on battery plates, they effectively restrict the flow of electrons and lock away active material required for normal operation. As this barrier becomes thicker and thicker, the battery's ability to accept a charge or deliver energy is lowered.

I have had several batteries that have failed load test and were considered junk - after charging them with a pulse type trickle charger they were reusable and passed the load testing with flying colors!


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1991 Barth Regal
460 EFI C6 Transmission
33' Oshkosh/John Deere Chassis

http://www.truckroadservice.com/

Additional info - FYI

Battery manufacturer report an unused battery is far more more susceptible to excessive sulfation than one being used or properly recharged daily. Dormant batteries have a discharge rate (from about .5 to 1.5%+/- per day) depending on several factors such as amount of pre-existing sulfation, ambient temperature, and basic construction, etc. This discharge rate translates into about 50 to 80 ma per day for the typical battery. When left unattended for long periods, the battery will sulfate rather quickly and resist further charging. While this happens it is next to impossible for an automatic battery charger to analyze the battery for the right amount of charge.

This is one reason a standard, even automatic trickle charger/maintainer tends to over-charge the battery long-term rather easily and thus boil out the electrolyte and ruin a battery, especially if left un-attended. Therefore, most battery manufacturers agree that leaving any type of common charger on long-term un-attended, especially a low cost trickle chargers, can easily be harmful and isn't recommended.

http://www.pulsetech.com/About/techtalkqa/techtalkqa.html

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1991 Barth Regal
460 EFI C6 Transmission
33' Oshkosh/John Deere Chassis

http://www.truckroadservice.com/



[This message has been edited by Bill (edited December 28, 2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by hilarlee:
Hey Bill, I know this is going to turn out to be a dumb question but.....what would be the reason for removing a circuit breaker? Should I be carrying a spare?

In the case of my neighbor, he didn't want to remove it, he wanted to use the post on the CB to attach an external cigarette lighter circuit, like I did on mine.

I have only seen one circuit breaker fail, and all it needed was a little cleanup inside with a point file. They are pretty simple and trouble-free.

"I have only seen one circuit breaker fail..."
Bill, I deal with CBs regularly, and they do fail as they age. "Our" coaches are 15-30 years of age and that qualifies as aging. The failure is in the trip mechanism, making it difficult to reset and often leading to a failure to trip - it sits and cooks, then melts if the wire doesn't melt first. I wouldn't carry a spare, but I would replace any that show difficulty when turned off and on. This isn't something to worry about, but keep it in the back of your mind.
Amendment: I assumed you're referring to 120v breakers in the coach; if not, disregard. G

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"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

[This message has been edited by Gunner (edited December 28, 2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by Gunner:
Amendment: I assumed you're referring to 120v breakers in the coach;

Yeah, I was referring to the 12 volt CBs. My 120 volt CBs are inside in a pretty benign environment, while the 12 volters are all outside, subject to coastal fog, salt air, and our winter rains and year-round humidity.

Your post makes me glad we are mostly 12 volt folks.

Bill, I agree with you on the need to get rid of sulfation. I have always been intrigued, but find the literature somewhat conflicting. Some say that equalization is enough, some say electronic desulfation is the cat's pajamas. Some even say chemical desulfation is best. I use EDTA in my batteries, and they go a long time. I am in year five now. On another RV, I upended the batteries at 7 years (or whenever the batts started to age) and dumped the acid out. Then refilled with an EDTA solution and let sit for a day or two. Then drained and refilled with new acid. They went several more years. Right now, my five year old T125s test better than spec with a Midtronics 400 tester. My Trace solar controller claims to equalize, but I have never witnessed it. My Iota charger/converter claims to do it once a week, but we are never plugged in. Maybe I should try to induce an equalization cycle somehow.

One of the battery engineers at my former employer says batteries that are not left to sit discharged do not need desulfation or equalization. He poo poos anything except full charging as soon as possible.
Our electric cart fleet was a rolling test lab for battery abuse. They did everything wrong, and paid and paid for it. If they had only listened to me.

Still intrigued with electronic desulfating, I bought a Vector charger with that feature. What a piece of junk! It didn't even stand up as a regular charger, and an AC voltmeter showed no AC component during the supposed desulfating feature. Too bad, as it seemed to offer a lot for the money. Suspiciously, the manufacturer offers refurbed units all the time. Must have a lot of warranty returns like mine. I don't remember for sure, but I think they are made in China.

What unit do you use?

I am giving some thought to making my own, either from the circuit on this site:

http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm


or from this kit:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?URL=index&ID=K...ATID=25&SUBCATID=821

I find it interesting that they call this a "zapper". I have used a home brew zapper for years to resurrect old nicads that have brown internal whiskers. Just at line frequency, though.

I remember the old railroad batteries had glass cases. It would be so much fun to see all these theories in action if I had those. Life would be just one big science fair.

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
What unit do you use?

To be honest with you... I don't know. Will have to get down to the lower garage in the next day or so to see. It was sold to me by my local alternator & starter rebuilder. Will report back later.

Your kit looks interesting. Let us know if you do it.

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1991 Barth Regal
460 EFI C6 Transmission
33' Oshkosh/John Deere Chassis

http://www.truckroadservice.com/

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited December 28, 2005).]

My life would be complete if only both Bill's lived on either side of my house....They would walk over to each others house once in a while and I could intercept them at my driveway to hear hours upon hours of technical information...

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Larry and Heidi from CA

I replaced the two-way converter in my SOB with s one-way with the "Charge Wizard" - it runs a trickle charge and a desulfating cycle. It's a little disconcerting when the desulfating cycle kicks in, as the lights brighten...