I call myself a sophomore ('wise fool') because I did a great deal of research thanks to this wonderful site and bought a DP Breakaway a a few years ago. But I was either a fool or fooled on what it needed, then put thru the ringer by the mechanic, and wound up selling it to a very happy person who fixed it himself and loves it. I bought an sob, but have always yearned for another Barth. So I'll ask 3 questions if I might be so bold:
1. Does a non mechanic have any business buying a Barth? I am not inept, and when we full time, I will have the time; but an engineer I'm not.
2. Does anyone have a 'solid gold' Barth mechanic that I could rely on for preventive and annual maintenance?
3. Is there a tendency in full timers to begin in a '28 or '30 and then move to larger, or not necessarily so?
thanks in advance, jerry in atlanta

I can semi-answer some of your queries...

1. One doesn't have to be a mechanic to own a Barth (or any other motorhome out-of-warranty), but it cuts down significantly on potential rip-offs and $95/hour repair shops. A side benefit of doing one's own work is that one becomes intimately familiar with all the systems, and can catch minor issues before they erupt into major ones. In another post, I've trumpeted the value of something as simple as wallowing around under the motorhome, looking for leaks, frayed/worn insulation on wiring, cracked hoses, worn bushings, and the like.

Simply becoming familiar with the coach can stifle overenthusiastic repair shops.

2. There is no "solid-gold" mechanic, period. They all are subject to human foibles - mistakes, fatigue, attitude, etc.

3. I only know a few full-timers but several "major-timers" (one of which I nearly am, spending about 10-15 weeks a year in the coach). 28' for the two dogs and me is ideal; plenty of room for all three of us, and with the later ('94 on) Breakaways, there's plenty of basement storage, a necessity for extended living in any coach. Sadly, that's why I had to pass on your fine '92 Breakaway - basement storage. If I were to add another human to the menagerie, I'd go not less than 32' for major-timing, and actually, would seriously consider certain well-made SOBs (Beaver, Bluebird) as even Regency 32's are tight on storage. One such candidate is this 33' Beaver on ebay; would I swap the guy even for my Breakaway? Not at gunpoint (well, maybe at gunpoint), because StaRV II is just what fits my needs.

But everyone I know (maybe 20 folks) that is a major-timer or full-timer has at least a 34', and more commonly, a 38' or 40'. Slideouts seem to be a major feature liked by those, but while they bring extra room, they also bring issues (as I note by having crawled with its owner under a brand-new $350K in the rain at 38°F to force a slide to retract).

If I were considering full-timing, even just with Maggie, Casey, and me, I'd go not less than 32', and probably 38'.

Very helpful Rusty: thanks so much. May I cross examine, your honor? 1. I am actually not as clueless as I suggest. I used to work on my cars and did fine; even major work. If I were willing to find Brooker, FL, and bring you a cold or hot beverage and your dogs a bag of the best food, would you give me a laymans' tour of what to watch for?
2. My car mechanic has foibles, but he is salt of the earth. Knows what he does and doesn't know, tells me things I can do myself, is always honest.
3. I thought the tendency is to go larger; is this for storage and room to get away from companions? Is the driving a '38 or '40 thru cities significantly more work than a '30 etc? (and btw, I had actually bought a Bluebird before my barth and dave bowers talked me out of the bluebird.) Thanks again, jerry

1. I'm a sucker for beverages (as Deb&Ed, DannyZ, and others can confirm) . But I'd suspect that if you have a working knowledge of autos, you'd be just fine with motorhomes. The chasses' layouts are a bit different, but the principles are the same. An RV is basically a truck (with its issues) and a house on top (with its issues).

2. The most endearing quality of a mechanic is his ability to know what he doesn't know.

3. Larger (from what I understand) for couples spending extended trips in their coach, is a) The storage, and b) as you perceived, the ability to not be crowded on top of each other, thereby preventing homicide.

A 28' has the same issues as a 40' in terms of maintenance; the latter is just bigger. One of the things I like about my Breakaway is that lifting the bed exposes the entire engine compartment. That friend with the recalcitrant slide has a 40' Beaver; there are 5 different hatches to get to different parts of the engine compartment, and some are a PITA to get to.

As to the "fun" of driving a 38' or 40' through cities being a problem, that's one of the endearing qualities of my 28' Breakaway (and of your prior coach): I don't have to worry about it - I can basically go anywhere due to the maneuverability with the short wheelbase (the same as your '92 28'). A 38' or 40' generally has a wheelbase in the 240"+ range, and that limits flitting around tight urban streets, and a widebody (102" vs. 96") also makes planning one's course more critical. While I just plain don't have to concern myself with urban or narrow country road driving, my friends with the jumbo coaches have to; when I've recommended routes to them the roadway is the first thing they ask about - I've learned to note the lane width and shoulder size so I can tell them.

As Rusty said, a Barth is a motorhome like any other motorhome (no special mechanic needed). It's just built better. Being an SOB owner myself, it kinda pains me to say that ... but I know it's true in most cases. I hope to someday upgrade to a Breakaway perhaps if we ever go the DP route. This first motorhome of mine is 35' so I jumped right in size-wise. Maneuverability is all in the eye of the beholder. Once you're used to it and know what kind of turns you can/can't make, it's really no problem. Most any campground nowadays is set up for big Class A's since they dominate the motorhome market (which wasn't always the case). If you go smaller you'll learn to live with it, but for a potential future fulltimer you will definitely appreciate the space in a larger rig if you can find the right one.

I would add a humble opinion.

There is a certain cachet to owning a diesel, & coach for coach you get a few more miles per gallon with a diesel compared to a gasser. That, and the longevity of the diesel engine are valid considerations if you're going to drive many thousands of miles every year.

But diesels generally require the ministrations of professional diesel mechanics, & few recreation vehicles are driven enough to make the diesel advantages an economic consideration, especially considering the diesel premium you pay at purchase.

Now I know I flout the common wisdom of diesel owners who have come to predominate the posters on this website, but there advantages to humble Chevrolet-powered coaches mounted on the ubiquitous potato chip truck P-30 something chassis. To wit:

1) Lower initial cost.
2) Amenable to the ministrations of the average shade tree mechanic.
3) Most mechanical parts available at your friendly local automotive parts house off the shelf, or overnight.
3) Can be worked on by any old truck mechanic.

Some find the front mounted engine a disadvantage. It's generally noisier than pushers, & the engine compartments tend to be cramped for the do-it-yourself-er.

There is not much difference in livability between diesel & gas Barths. Regencies are more ornate, as are the
"SE" model gassers. All Barths I've seen use standard RV appliances & accessories.

The ideal length is a matter of personal preference. As a general rule the shorter they are the more options you have for places to camp. I know one elderly couple who happily full-timed in a 21' van conversion. They never had trouble finding a parking place, going to a restaurant, or getting into service stations, but they seldom put the anchor down for more than 2 weeks in the same spot. If you're going to stay anchored for months in a destination RV park, bigger is generally better. If you want to boondock and/or get around easily, smaller is better.

If you need a pusher, or plan to drive 100K miles a year, or just have to have a diesel, by all means go for it. But if you're going to drive perhaps 20K miles per year or less, & overall economy of purchase & ownership is a consideration, think about a Chev-powered gasser.

Look around, see what's out there for sale, compare prices, estimate ease of maintenance, & operating costs for the amount you will use it, then make up your own mind.

Thanks for that Roy. It's an opinion I regard highly and agree with completely for my own RV needs. Thanks for taking the time and effort to state it so well. I have burned a lot of diesel on the highway and have to say - I really love my Chevy Barth.

My take, 95% of our members who own a DP, don't need a DP.

That being said, I also own a Chevy Suburban and a Avalanche. I could have bought an S-10 or Trailblazer instead of the bigger SUV. It would still get me around town. I didn't need the bigger SUV, I wanted the bigger SUV.

With the currently depre$$ed market in DP coaches, you might be able to get yourself a very nice coach for a bargain. That in itself could justify a DP over a gaso.

Start off by asking yourself about the floor plan. What do you like and dislike about each. What is a must for the "house part" of it? After you've figured that out, start your search. If a DP presents itself, and your happy with the floor plan, consider it the same as a gaso if you fall into the 95% range. Just remember the service side of your purchase will present itself farther down the line.

If you are going full time and heavy traveling is in your plans, lean in the direction of a DP unit. If basement storage is high on your list of items, consider a DP or a Oshkosh Chassis Regal. If you're going to take it out on occasion, consider the gaso units.

You are in the buyers seat, the sellers are trying to get at your money. Consider all equally, and if you're not comfortable inspecting it yourself, pay a pro to go over it.

Since taking over this site I've seen a lot - it's only been 7 months and I've seen a person ask for over 93k for a 97 DP that is currently booked in the 65k range. I've seen Barths given away for free or next to free. Seeing that we own a "Orphaned Coach" the market value of our units are lower.

Is the lower market justified for our coaches? If you're the buyer, yes. You know the value of a Barth and you want to save money. In the long run, it really is in all of our best interest to see the value of our coaches stay high. Realistically, it's not going to happen.

The "best value" for a "quality built" coach is currently a Barth, gaso or diesel pusher. The best value for you is based on what you can do for yourself or how much disposable income you have. Those are questions you need to ask yourself.

I am a "Diesel Mechanic" by trade. I own a 1989 Oshkosh Chassis, gasoline powered 460 Ford, 33' 1991 Barth Regal Coach. And I can tell you, I've spent weeks trying to get something as simple as a master cylinder to fit my own coach.

If you are looking at an MCC Chassis, 8.2 Detroit Diesel, keep in mind the parts availabilty for these chassis and engine related items are not as great. Most 8.2L that have had engine failure have been retrofitted with the 3208 Cat Turbo Diesel. The MCC Chassis Parts are only available from 1 source, Leslie Hoagland, MOTOR COACH RESTORATION at Lincoln,Illinois. http://www.motorcoachrestoration.com/

Just to add my 2 cents worth to the conversation. When we were looking for a coach, I really wanted the heavy duty bus type chassis. These seem to have less overhang, a wider wheel base, heavier brake systems, and larger wheels. This made the diesel almost a requirement since no one builds a gasoline coach on the Gillig or Spartan type chassis.

Of course everything seems to have its trade offs. We wanted twin beds, so that my sons and I could use the coach for golfing vacations when the wife and I are not using it. A DP does not lend itself well to twin beds because the engine cover takes up about half of the walkway between the beds. Our coach is only 32 feet and doesn't have nearly all the basement storage I would like. Remember I would like to take 3 golf bags at times.

We did consider buying a forward control Bluebird Wanderlodge, but could never find one in very good shape for a decent price. We eliminated the Wanderlodge DP's mainly because of the large Detroit Diesel engines and their terrible fuel milage. At 4 to 5 miles a gallon I didn't think we would ever be able to go anywhere. Our search was limited to Beaver, Wanderlodge, and Barth. I will admit I had never heard of Barth until we had been looking for about a year, but after learning about them, I fell in love with the construction.

Now we should have all confused the issue beyond any reasonable decision making process.
Nick

"Is there a tendency in full timers to begin in a '28 or '30 and then move to larger, or not necessarily so?"
Conventional wisdom is (or was): 28' is the minimum for "extended stays" in a motorhome; and over 28', anything less than 4' length extensions didn't really add useful features - ergo, 28'; 32'; 36' were ideal. ( I, of course, have a 38', confirming my contrary nature).
"Is the driving a '38 or '40 thru cities significantly more work than a '30 etc?"
Oh, Yeah! Aaannd..most of these are widebodies, which adds to the excitement. Braking, esp with a 6,000lb toad, is also fun.

Something I left out of my earlier post.

We in America have a very hard time using the words small and nice in the same sentence. We are conditioned to think that nice also must mean large. It doesn't seem to matter if we are talking about homes, cars, RVs or anything else.

I think one of the things Barth did better than anyone is build a NICE coach in the smaller sizes. No one else built 28, 30 and 32 foot coaches like Barth. It doesn't matter if you are talking Regals, Breakaways or Regencies. Barth built nice coaches in these sizes. Try to find one built by anyone today!!
Nick

You mention full-timing in your original post. I would want a coach with LOTS of room to move around AND lots of interior and exterior storage if My Beloved and I had to move into a motorhome full time.
ie: - that 40' wide body Regency for sale in south Florida.
Just my two cents worth of course.

Don and Patty ... in Arizona enjoying 3-4 month's living in our Barth

We have had motor homes since 1978. Back then we bought a 25' Champion. Then in early 80's a 31' Sportscoach. In 1990 I started converting a 35' GM 4106 Bus. In 2002 my wife bought a 43'6" Newell and I had to sell my bus. In 2006 we bought 1 30' Barth Breakaway. This was to be our Alaska cruiser and then sold this winter. Guess what, the Newell is for sale.

We also have been full timers since 2000 and are now getting off the road and building a house. My wife likes roots.

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Carter:
In 2002 my wife bought a 43'6" Newell. In 2006 we bought a 30' Barth Breakaway. This was to be our Alaska cruiser and then sold this winter. Guess what, the Newell is for sale.

Aside from size, would you compare the Breakaway with the Newell?

I would really be interested in hearing about a Regency compared to a Newell. The few Newells I have looked at seemed a little sterile inside. The Regencies felt like an old wooden yacht while the Newells were more like an airliner.

This size and quality issue is interesting to me. You guys have made me focus on higher end units which include Barths, Bluebirds, Newells and Provost. I also like the Beaver but yes it's plastic.

I can't seem to find smaller units newer than 1997 which seems to be the age that the finance companies will loan money on. So a nice 1995 Barth or Beaver, or a Bluebird all in the 35' range fall into the too old to finance slot. I have not yet finished looking. My credit union of 37 yeas treats me very much differently now that I am retired and living out of State.

So when I do searches for newer than 1997 I come up with 40 to 45' rigs that look fantastic. I asked about a 1995 Newell 2000 for sale at heartland coach and they sales guy said I would have problems in State parks. I want to do some boondocking not more than 25% and I don't need to go "two-tracking" in the rig.

I like the wanderlodge and they do seem to have the Detroit engine, a comment here said they get very bad mileage in the 4-5 range. Is this worse than a large Barth, Newell or provost?

Driving in the city is not so difficult, I had a 35' GMC Bus with no issues in the city, after all cities have city busses don't they?

However years ago, 1990 to 1995 access to some very off road places with the Bus was limited mostly by oddly placed trees and low hanging branches that could sneak up on the roof. I assume that some of that has been addressed for big rigs,

What about finance on a 1994-1996 Barth DP for 50 grand, can I do that? I currently am looking at a 1992 Newell 2000, 1999 and 2000 Wanderlodge, 1998 Beaver Marquis, 2000 Patriot 37' and a 2005 Beaver Santiam 38'with 4 slides. All these units are nearly the same price. I qualify to borrow that much money so the question is policy of the lenders.

I am ok with old and taken care of but this size issue has me concerned.

Regarding Gas units from what I can tell the quality and finish is just not a good as a gas unit. I do agree about service on a chevy drive train would be much easier.

Gary where is your newell listed and do you have comments about the size. You mentioned getting the Barth to do the alaska trip, which I did in the GMC bus and I was glad I had a strong rig. Were you expecting problems taking the Newell thru BC and north?

Thanks

Tom