This is a friendly reminder.

If you are stuck in snow, mud, ice, grass, frogs, whatever... you should be aware of the following.

If your tire is spinning, and you're hoping for traction, the speedometer will only read 1/2 of the actual speed of your slipping tire.

Speedometer reading 85MPH - The one tire that is spinning is turning at 170MPH

Let me briefly explain how a rear works... When you go around a corner, one wheel is turning faster than the other wheel, this is done through the "differential".



The "differential" aka "Spider Gears" and bearings could blow apart as they're not designed to handle a 170 MPH hard turn.

This is why they also tell you not to run a "Donut Spare" on a drive axle for an extended period of time. Two different sized tires is the same as driving around in a circle everywhere you go.

Now, we've all spun our tires to get out of being stuck, I just wanted to arm you with more knowledge. This way when it does go boom, tire or differential, you'll know why.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
The "differential" aka "Spider Gears" and bearings could blow apart as they're not designed to handle a 170 MPH hard turn.

Good lesson.

In my own case, before I learned this, I wore out the spider gear spacers, and the excess clearance made things a little noisier back there. I got to it in time to save it, but it was a hard lesson and a lot of work for a high school kid with little knowledge or experience.

These winter lessons are always interesting. A number of new SUV owners are so impressed with the improved driving traction of their 4WD that they forget that their braking grip is no better than a 2WD car, and perhaps worse because of the weight of the SUV.

This is particularly noticeable in ski areas in California, where a big SUV is a fashion statement, and the drivers seem not too astute.

quote:

These winter lessons are always interesting. A number of new SUV owners are so impressed with the improved driving traction of their 4WD that they forget that their braking grip is no better than a 2WD car, and perhaps worse because of the weight of the SUV.

Way way back in the day I found it was better not to put snow tires on my VW bug. If I couldn't go I could stop. My friends with snow tires could get to conditions of OH NO.
I think the line from driver's ed was: "If you can't go, there you are. If you can't stop, where are you?"

We just took the train from williams to the Grand Canyon and back with one overnight (this was a great trip, good service and not too pricy), had a blizzard, then 3 hours of super clear, followed by a white out. The best of both worlds in my opinion.

Comment on the SUV's they had about 18 to 24 inches of snow, not much from a Michigan boy, and all of the cars stuck, or skidways into the snow banks were these SUV types. With some not being able to get unstuck with 4 wheel drive.

Then I see a VW, a pinto and an old 1970 mercury pass buy with no snow chains or snow tires from what I could see.

I guess it is the driver.

Merry Xmas

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:


Comment on the SUV's they had about 18 to 24 inches of snow, not much from a Michigan boy, and all of the cars stuck, or skidways into the snow banks were these SUV types. With some not being able to get unstuck with 4 wheel drive.

Then I see a VW, a pinto and an old 1970 mercury pass buy with no snow chains or snow tires from what I could see.

I guess it is the driver.

Merry Xmas

Tom

quote:

bill h ...."This is particularly noticeable in ski areas in California, where a big SUV is a fashion statement, and the drivers seem not too astute."

Perhaps this is not just a California phenomenon.

quote:

I guess it is the driver. Tom

Growing up in Denver, CO, I remember the stories of my dad going hunting and pulling 4X4's out of the ditches with my mom's Buick Invicta Station Wagon. Later, I remember passing all of the 4X4's on the side of the road during the blizzard of 1982 while driving my 1966 Buick Riviera GS. Much later, during a blizzard in 1998, I again was passing many 4X4's in the ditch, or stuck on the side of the road in a snow bank, in my 1984 Buick Riviera T-Type Turbo convertible. I had to mention that since it was one of 11 built. For awhile I came to the conclusion that Buicks were the way to go in bad weather. I finally came to the conclusion that all those 4X4's were being driven by over confident and sometimes inexperienced drivers who found out the hard way that 4X4's get you in farther before you get stuck.

It never occurred to me that while passing all these 4X4's, maybe I shouldn't be on the road. Why? Because I know darn well that Buick's are the way to go in bad weather.

Here's my Unstuckmobile:



My kids complain because we take it to the AZ desert in Jan and Feb when they want it for skiing. My oldest finally bought his own Toyota 4WD with the same tires, Goodrich ATs, front and rear lockers, ally same-same. His lockers are electric, though. Pretty nifty.


We both carry chains front and rear, but they are seldom needed, and the CHP usually takes one look and waves us through the chain checkpoint, unless there is ice.

I had a chat with a patrolman who often investigated snow accidents, and he observed that black SUVs from El Lay and silver SUVs from the Bay Area were the most often involved.

What's up with that? Is it just because those colors are the trendiest in their particular area, and trendoids are the worst snow drivers?

Ed?

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
... black SUVs from El Lay and silver SUVs from the Bay Area were the most often involved.

I guess poor Towerguy doesn't have a chance then.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
I guess poor Towerguy doesn't have a chance then.

That is my absolute favorite Barth paint design and color. I bought my ski boat from a former Raider, and he had Eliminator make it in Raider black and silver. I NEED a Barth to match it. Preferably a 30 ft mid-entry Regency.

Hey Bill, Sky has a 32 that looks just like it.

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
I guess poor Towerguy doesn't have a chance then.

No way, I'll have a Buick for a toad so I'm covered!

Actually, last Memorial Day, I made a trip in the Stagecoach to Durango, CO for my nephews H.S. graduation. I was VERY impressed with the handling of the Stagecoach in high crosswinds (est 60+). I would have been forced to park it if it was a high profile SOB. I love the Gillig chassis! Going over LaVeta and Wolf Creek Passes I encountered a fair amount of snow in a couple of places and was happy with the response from said Stagecoach. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to really test this thing on the pass without chains. Like I said, I'll be pulling a Buick so I'll be invincible just like most big SUV drivers!

Since I have apparently missed out on Gunner's coach, when the time comes for the Stagecoach to move on, I think it should go to an Oakland Raider fan. I don't dare take this to a Denver Broncos game. If I ever do, I'll have Denver Bronco logos placed about every five feet unless I decide I want a new paint job.

quote:

What's up with that? Is it just because those colors are the trendiest in their particular area, and trendoids are the worst snow drivers?

Ed?

AS you all know, we haven't had much snow this year until last week! BUT, it has been extremely cold for this time of year!

"TRENDOIDS" ? Great moniker! What I saw last year were more Hummers in the ditch then anything else, lots of Rexus SUVs in trouble also! You know what? It doesn't take snow for these guys(and gals) to get in trouble, first rain does a great job! It gets real slick on our mountain roads (OK, foothill roads) with all the summers oil and grease and then just a little bit of water!!

I'll take my 1984 Diesel rabbit with 4 studded snows anywhere >grin<. I made my 18 year old daughter a beleiver this week when all her friends were stuck on an ice covered hill with thier 4x4's and the mighty rabbit left them in the dust...or should I say cloud of black smoke.

The winter of 1954, I was a G.I. bill student at Denver U. We lived lived in Pioneer Village, DU's version of the veterans' shanty town every college campus had, post-WW II. Several of us who lived there, car-pooled to a temporary civil service job across town.

My car was a Citroen 11L "Traction Avant," derided regularly & vociferously by my car pool mates. While we were at work one night, several inches of snow fell. People pondered whether to try to make it home, or camp in the building, but I strapped chains on my front wheels (people thought I was nuts, FWD was a rarity those days) we all climbed in, & by the time we got home we were literally the only car moving.

From then on, whenever the weather was bad, they pleaded with me to drive. The chains, however, chewed up my sidewalls. Radial tires were yet unknown in the U.S. & the chains weren't designed for them.

Warning! - Thread drift. Musings in a sleepless night - things to ponder in a new year.

Most things French, except wine & cheese, are generally derided, especially mechanical objects. A Ford engineer once opined that the mid-1950s Citroen was "a beautiful design poorly executed, while the [original] Volkswagen was a poor design beautifully executed."

From experience with my Citroen TA, predecessor of the mid-50s design, I must agree with the "poorly executed," phrase.

I note, however, that for the past quarter-century, or so, most of us have been riding around in cars configured as that early Citroen, except for the more common transverse vs. longitudinal engine placement. We've been riding around on radial tires too, as opposed to the old bias-ply skins.

Perhaps we should remember that the FWD configuration, & probably the radial tires as well, appeared on that Citroen TA, 74 years ago, in 1934. It took us a half-century to catch up.

I could go on at length about other problems this nation has suffered from the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, but I've already gone too far off the Barth track.