quote:

So this brings up another important question for stupo's like me. What do I do with the excess fuel return line at the mech pump? Just loop it or cut and plug at the source? Next question - would power source for new elect pump be okay to come from starter or closest solenoid? And finally, what about installing a new mech pump in addition to the elect, for redundancy sake?

THX,
don

[/B]

Hey Gill, why not just cough up another seventy K or so and get you a MoneyKo. :-)
BTW: I took the electric fuel pump off the Barth and installed it on my lawnmower. The old mechanical one that was on the mower, I put on the 454 block. Can't figure out why you're having problems, it worked just fine on the riding mower.

Well Ron Ole'chap, I wondered when your cherry buttocks was going to chime in. I'm getting the shop class here I wished they'd offered in high school.

I would be a broke dude without this forum's help. I replaced all the filters today and plan to take a long test ride tomorrow before I proceed with the nitrous induction unit. The little filter at the front tank contained dirt and water. Duh!

Like you, I think the mech fuel pump would have gone slam out, no wishy-washy stuff.

I plan to install the elect pump as soon as I figure out where the red wire goes. And then again, it may go into the parts locker for emergency use. I finally figured out I could get to the mech pump bolts thru the wheel well so I'll prolly buy a spare one-a-dem too.

While I have your attention, what are the warning signs that a valve job may be in the offing? Does the starboard pipe get hotter than the port? Is a valve adjustment a good preventive measure at 64K miles or should one do the whole grinding monty? Do you think the champagn will spoil if I want until the first, uneventful, surprize road trip?

doggydo :-)

Here's a thought about electronic fuel pumps that I'm hoping all of you know but I have to throw it out here in case one person isn't aware of it. I had a wheelchair buddy who bought a nice van to use a conversion. The first day he went to use it he started it up and transfered to the chair so his buddy could drive. The engine killed and he waited for his buddy to come out of the house, a matter of 20 seconds or so. Luckily, they were able to drag everyone out safely, but the van burned to the ground. We're dealing with older coaches here and need to realize that we're on our own in a lot of ways, and every change we make to the fuel system is our own responsibility. A hot wired electric fuel pump will just keep pumping fuel. If 99 of you say "well duh" and one of you says "oh", then maybe I saved a coach!!

------------------
Dan & Suzy Z
'81 Euro 28

Good point, Danny.

Mine came wired straight from the ignition switch. I installed a switch so that it ran only when there was oil pressure. I also installed a bypass for filling the float bowl before starting.

Lots of boats are wired this way. I got the switch from a marine supplier. My jags have an impact sensor to shut off the electric fuel pump in a crash, so that might be a higher level of safety, too.

Yep,
I plan to have a professional wire my pump if and when I install it.

After changing the $4 filter yesterday afternoon, I took her on a 100 mile road test this afternoon. She never coughed once and got 9.3 MPG fully loaded, mostly interstate but a good bit of country road stop and go's. Never gotten this kind of milage before. Not sure I believe the synthetic oil, water wetter, and splitfire plugs were that good.

Thanks everyone,
Chicken Little

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:
Yep,
I plan to have a professional wire my pump if and when I install it.

After changing the $4 filter yesterday afternoon, I took her on a 100 mile road test this afternoon. She never coughed once and got 9.3 MPG fully loaded, mostly interstate but a good bit of country road stop and go's. Never gotten this kind of milage before. Not sure I believe the synthetic oil, water wetter, and splitfire plugs were that good.

Thanks everyone,
Chicken Little

Help! Where is the mountain!!! The Mountain, she is gone? All that's left is this little mole hill? :-) LOL, man, I hope that spooged-up filter is the mainest problem. What a relief that must be. Never saw that kind of fuel efficiency myself. Congratulations and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

As for valve adjustment things, I ain't got a clue. On my scooters, a distinct tapping usually warns if impending doom, but the scooter lifters are solids.

The good part is: I learned a lot and got some good hands on OJT. For an unmechanically minded guy, I feel better knowing more about the systems in play.

You know, I started to mention in my first wordy essay that the engine missing felt more like air bubbles or water in the carb, but thought, Nah! I really underestimated the importance of these little, cheap filters and was really shocked to see dirty water pour out of the old filter after the first drips of fuel. Henceforth, this will be a regular bi-annual part of my preventitive maintaince list.

I'm still wondering what Singles did with that $134 electric fuel pump, purchased in 1999. It must have been the one you replaced on the genset. The one I purchased this week was around $45 and looks exactaly like the one you installed on the genset.

I speculate, fire hazard is prolly the reason that our fuel tanks don't have petclocks on the bottom, like airplanes, to bleed the water which even an idiot, like me, knows has to build up from condensation.

Down here, gasoline is 'bout a dime higher than diesel so you get the smiles for awhile. But, I'm not complaining, its still cheaper than cow juice.

With all my mole hills fixed and nothing else to worry about for now, I guess its time to give you fellows some peace, then make like a cow patty and hit the dusty trail.

don (chicken little)

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited April 13, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited April 13, 2005).]

Don, it seems like with experience, you've shed the titles of doggydo & chicken little. I missed your question about valve jobs. It seems moot now, but I'll respond anyway.

Your 454 has hydraulic valve lifters, so once they're adjusted after a valve job or overhaul, there's nothing to be done, if the job was done right. At 64K, odds are your valves are still OK, presuming the rig has a history of proper care.

Typical signs of bad valves are engine roughness & missing on hard acceleration, lack of power, and increased oil consumption. 454s normally drink more oil than your little car anyway, and these symptoms are not exclusive to valves. They can point to ignition and fuel problems too.

About the best way to check your valves, is a compression test, both dry & wet, which will clue you as to the condition of your rings as well..

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited April 13, 2005).]

Thanks olroy,

While being under the coach so much recently, I noticed that the starboard exhaust pipe was rusted and blown out at the 90 degree bend just before exiting the coach. The exhaust system is not that old and the rust was prolly exacerbated by routine, off season idling condensation due to not letting the pipes get hot enough, (a bill h archive rule).

I put a patch on the spot and cranked up to get the patch hot enough to cure, letting her idle at about 1500 RPMs for 20 minutes.

What I noticed, while listening to the throaty cadence of the FlowMasters, was that the starboard pipe was smooth with an even beat while the port side pipe emitted little intermittent, off beat pops.

Getting 9.3 mpg yesterday on my 100 mile road test, I'm not overly concerned. But having had a great deal of experience with the GM 350's over the years, seems the #8 cylinder was always the first to show signs of losing compression. Why this is or even if this is a common characteristic, I know not, just my personal experience.

All plugs, wires, and distributor components being fresh, my natural curosity causes me to ask what might cause the one side to run slightly rougher than the other?

don

Sounds like a LEFT WING CONSPIRACY to me. The world is full of them. hehehe

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:

I speculate, fire hazard is prolly the reason that our fuel tanks don't have petclocks on the bottom, like airplanes, to bleed the water which even an idiot, like me, knows has to build up from condensation.


don (chicken little)

My 84 has a drain plug on the bottom of the tank. I have been shooting it with PB Blaster when I think of it. Someday, when the tank is really low I will pull it. In the meantime, I dump a gallon of alcohol in the tank once a year. Water will not mix with gasoline, but will mix with alcohol. then, the alcohol/water mix will mix with the gasoline and your water is gone. Also helps me pass smog every two years. Keeping your tank full is the best way to prevent condensation.

Since you are known to have crap in your tank, carry a spare filter.

A vacuum gage can detect a sticking valve. They come with pretty good instructions, or consult a Motor's or Chilton at your library.

A good mechanic with an Allen scope can tell you a lot, too.

That off beat pop in the port side exhaust could be a sticking valve. Years ago, I used Mechanic's brand engine oil cleaner to free up Continental lifters with good results. You might try Marvel Mystery Oil in yours. Bardahl did that, too, but I haven't seen it lately.

I have also freed up varnished valve stems by spraying them with carb cleaner as the engine idles. You need rocker stoppers for that to avoid a mess, though. It will also depend on the valve seals installed on your engine. If it has umbrellas, no deal.

I am curious about the fuel pump bolted to the side of the engine you describe. If you have a digital camera, could you take a picture next time you are underneath?

bill h,

I like the alcohol tip, that's a handy one to know.

I'd be glad to snap a photo of my mech fuel pump but all that you'd be able to see is the bottom. When I was at the parts house, I asked to see a standard pump for the '83-'84 chevy 454 and it was identical to mine.
Being able to see the whole thing for once, it was very similiar to a GM 350 pump's top half, but had the larger can on bottom for the 454's.

BTW: I had my nautical terms reversed in the last post. The starboard was out of synco-rhythm. When I repaced the plug wires recently, #8 had a fried plug connector and as I mentioned, my experience with GM 350's in boats and autos, the #8 cylinder was always the first to show compression weakness. However, in fairness, the #8 wire had been rubbing against an uninsulated metal, hot water circuation tube that, I suppose, could have been a contributing factor. That pipe is now insulated.

In closing, my pay grade is beneath doing my own valve work, but I know the right retired pro if/when he (at 84 yrs young)comes out of hybernation this year to reopen his now part-time, fair weather mechanic'n business.

As always, I can't thank you all enough for your excellent advise and direction.

don

My pickemup chevy 350 fouls out a left front plug about every 1500 or so. I'm pretty sure it's a valve seal allowing oil to seep down into the chamber after shutdown. I'll fix it someday, but the truck is only used on occasion by freinds in need so I'm not putting a bunch of money in her at this time.

quote:

There is a fuel pump in the normal location for a mechanical pump. I can see the fuel lines going and coming from it but no electrical connections. It doesn't look like a mechanical pump, looks sorta like a brass colored oil filter about 3" in dia. with 3 small hose connections on bottom.

I'm still wonder what type of fuel pump I have, electrical, mechanical or both. I've changed out mechanical fuel pumps on Chevy 350's before but this pump looks nothing like I've seen and suspect it is electrical mounted in the same location that a mechanical pump would be (but I see no wiring in this tight spot)

And again, if this is a mechanical pump located where a mechanical pump usually goes on a GM motor, it sure doesn't look like any I've seen.

I'm still trying to get a handle on what kind of fuel pump I have, located in the normal location of a conventional mechanical pump. As I mentioned, this thing looks like a simple cylindrical brass can (apprx 3"dia x 3" tall)with three small hose connections on the bottom. Repeat, it does not look like a conventional GM pump that I am familiar with, ie GM 350ci.

This one appears to be unconventional but I see no electrical connections.

Don, after all that, my curiosity was aroused. However, after rereading your later posts in the clear light of day, I think I have a fairly good idea now, so no need to crawl under and photograph.

I would still advise heat shielding the pump. Also heat shield the starter, or at least its solenoid. There is a long post somewhere on all that. Another thing to consider is to install a splash shield on the right side wheel well, like the left one. It will provide better air flow and resultant better cooling on the right side. This will avoid heat problems with right side ignition cables, fuel pump and starter.

A compression test will show a leaking valve. A vacuum gage will show a sticking valve, among other things. That old mechanic you have is probably an artist at reading a vacuum gage. It seems to be a lost art these days.

.....................................

For 17 years a first mate sailed with an old captain on a clipper ship in the China tea trade. Every day he observed the captain open his safe and read a small slip of paper silently to himself. The captain closed his eyes, was seen to move his lips, then closed and locked the safe.

Shortly after the captain died, the first mate was able to locate and read the little slip of paper that the captain read every day. He expected something religious or philosophical, Perhaps a prayer or a maxim. Even a saw or bromide, but was greatly disappointed when he finally read it.

It read, "Starboard is right, Port is left"

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Zeeff:
My pickemup chevy 350 fouls out a left front plug about every 1500 or so. I'm pretty sure it's a valve seal allowing oil to seep down into the chamber after shutdown. I'll fix it someday, but the truck is only used on occasion by freinds in need so I'm not putting a bunch of money in her at this time.

Danny, have you considered a hotter plug in that cylinder? Or an extended tip whoop-de- doo platinum plug? Or a booster gap plug?

An old two-stroke biker trick is to cut the ignition lead and reassemble it with a small gap between the cut ends. Clear vinyl tubing works best. I have actually cleared a fouled plug by lifting the plug connecter up a little, making a gap, until the plug cleared itself.