Looking for info on chassis and house batteries for a '91 28' Breakaway. Should the engine batteries be deep cycle or just starting batteries? What class? Group 29 currently. How about the house batteries? I'm sure they should be deep cycle but what group? Group 31 now.
Thanks
Jim

Engine batteries should be starting batteries, as they can produce more starting energy. House batteries should be only deep cycle.

Street side batteries are the starting batteries and should be group 31. The curb side (Right) are house batteries and should be deep cycle. I use 2 6 volt golf cart batteries, but with my solar panels should have 4.

Jim,

Rusty is to the point. Starting batteries are high energy, lots of cranking amps. Deep cycle have thicker lead plates that are useful for storage and longer depletion times. I bought an RV handbook (at Camping World) that has a great chapter on batteries alone. I would recommend this as an informative guide to anyone who is in the same 'boat' as me.

As for group number, I believe that refers to battery dimension. Links below serve to illustrate further.



Group sizing

Differences between deep cycle and starting batteries


Then, of course, there's always this:




(Topic title caught my attention right away. You may wish to use smaller loaves, but make sure to wire them in series. Also, I've found that zucchini bread recycles faster)


Kirk

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Carter:
Street side batteries are the starting batteries and should be group 31. The curb side (Left) are house batteries and should be deep cycle. I use 2 6 volt golf cart batteries, but with my solar panels should have 4.

Gary,how did you get the golf carts to fit?Did you trim the battery posts or is your battery box designed for them?My unit was made so that 12v's slide in but 6v's are too tall.Both sets are on the drivers side.

The discussion on deep cycle batteries being used for starting usually neglects one thing.

The larger the deep cycle battery is, the less harmful a starting load can be.

I have had two Trojan engineers tell me (sotto voce, after looking around) that a pair of T-105s have a crank rating of (I think, without consulting notes) 500 amps. That is not published, though. That means that I am not going to go to Battery Hell for using my four T-105s to crank my 502 @ a measured load of 225 amps.

A decision should include both the battery bank size and the measured starting draw.

Something often ignored in these discussions is the startup load of a golf cart with a couple overweight golfers on an incline. That amp draw is way higher than anything a starter can impose.

I have not measured this, but if any golfers here would like to measure this, I can loan my clamp ammeter.

And...................there are inverters. A modest RV inverter, such as my Prosine 2.5, is rated at a surge of 50 amps @120 volts. This is a 500 amp DC load, (rated for 5 seconds). This is over twice my starting load. A 1500 watt toaster oven or hair dryer draws 125 amps (more when efficiency losses are calculated). Microwaves are more. All these amp draws are often imposed on a pair of golf cart batteries, and probably strain the battery more than a lot of starting applications.

Another factor is that a number of 8D batteries sold as cranking or deep cycle batteries are really the same battery, with different stickers. I questioned one insider on this, and he said such a big battery didn't really know the difference between a cranking load and a deep cycle load. I believe that is only half true, but marketing is marketing.

However, there is no disputing that heavy or deep discharges are hard on starting batteries.

Deep cycle batteries can stand deep discharges better, but life is shortened proportionately. And deep cycle batteries have their life shortened by heavy loads, but what is heavy, and what is "normal service". My own take is that the lighter the load, the longer the life of the battery. And, battery weight, cost and the size vs available space equation enter into how batteries are stressed.

And temperature. If the batts get above 78 F, their life is shortened. My solar batteries live in a hole in the ground to keep them happy in AZ summer temps. Susan is already complaining that I care more about our batteries than I do about our wine. When I get a tractor with a backhoe, we will have a wine cellar.

Ten years from now, I will report on how my four GC batteries have been surviving both cranking and deep cycle usage.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric D.:
My unit was made so that 12v's slide in but 6v's are too tall.

Mine was also made for 12 volters. There is a slight difference in height with GC batts.

A lot of this depends on battery post configuration.

My present ones are as pictured, with low profile studs. There would be little gained by modifying them.

If the posts are the usual auto type with studs on top, they can be shortened and low profile cable clamps can be used, with the pinch bolts also being the lug attach points.

Or, if more lowering is needed, the posts can be shortened further (by hand or air cutter....hydrogen is no fun around electric tools.) Then the post can be flattened on two opposite sides and a 5/16 hole drilled for 5/16 cable lugs. BTW, Trojan does supply this terminal on their batteries, and they also have another lug configuration rather like that.

They also have a battery configuration that is totally flat on top, and you screw the bolts down into the female threads. I have not cut my posts flat and drilled and tapped them, but almost did. Instead, I cut notches in the flange at the top of my battery compartment opening enough to allow the tray to open without the posts touching metal, and the attendant drama that would surely result.



NOTE: those straps are polyprop, and are sewn with polyprop thread, so it isn't as bad as it looks.

I should add that Barth did not do a great job on the battery tray. The batt compartment is poorly pop-riveted and the rivets are aluminum, which makes acid fumes and road splash eat them up. As a result, they fell down on our usual rough road adventures. I put it back up with steel bolts and rivets, and applied a bituminous sealant to resist both acid fumes and chemical-laden winter road splash. I think I will also rig a securing lug or strap for a little more security on bumpy roads. Or a little tag axle under it.

Bill,I do like your idea of the Delrin buckles on the straps.For sealing I used rattle can undercoating lavishly(as a verb) applied.When I do go with the 6v's a hack saw will be applied to the terminals for clearance purposes.

Gotta love the color coded positive and negative cable ends... they might actually be idiot proof! (well, close anyway)

I have one crank battery and only 2 coach batteries. Considering what these coaches cost new, I think Barth went a bit cheap on batteries.

The single cranker seems to work fine even in the winter, but the deep cycles take a pretty big hit in only 1-2 days (I don't have any big inverters running or they wouldn't go more than about 24 hrs.)

I am considering upsizing the 2 coach batteries and adding 2 more, maybe GC if I can figure out where to put them all. The factory box is marginal in size and strength, but not too corroded. I don't like generator noise...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve VW:


The single cranker seems to work fine even in the winter, .

I have started mine (warm weather) with a motorcycle battery about the size of a lawn tractor battery.

Purchased two series 31 starting batteries and two series 31 house(deep cycle) batteries, all four made by Deka. Their factory was about 20 minutes from where the Barth is being worked on and the factory manager was able to get me some very good pricing. From what I can tell, the Breakaway came from the factory with two series 29 starting batteries and two series 31 house batteries. The 31s are just a little taller than the 29s and work fine and give a little more cca. It's a pretty conventional setup. If I had more time to work on in, I would have gone the golf cart route but that would have involved some changes in the battery compartments that I didn't want to try to do long distance.
Thanks for the input.

quote:

Deka

Bought many batteries there, Lions Station, PA.
They have an outlet store. They sell "seconds, only in name and warranty, about half price.I bought car batteries, truck batteries, RV batteries and boat batteries. Only ever had one disappointment and returned it within about a month and they replaced it.

Good to know.