I have a question for you gurus that know a lot more about engines then I do. If my alternator seized up causing the belt to also seize, would that keep the starter from turn over when the key was turned?
I have a feeling that I just had a perfectly good starter replaced - (arg)

Maybe, to your question, & maybe you had a perfectly good starter replaced as well. BUT, if the engine wouldn't turn over because the belt & alternator seized, a perfectly good starter might not have enough torque to overcome the friction. In that case, if you turned the key to start, & kept feeding juice to the starter when it couldn't turn the engine over, you could burn out a perfectly good starter quickly.

If everything is back in working order, rejoice. Maybe you wasted some money, maybe not, but at least you got a new starter, a new alternator, & a new belt out of it. Three components that shouldn't trouble you again for a long time.

This might be one of the most important posts to me in a long time. I've had some issues with both the alternator and starter, nothing that has stopped us but enough to give us a chill. We have stopped for gas and the starter just gives a groan when I hit the key. I can usually mash the AUX START button and after one or two clicks it will spin fine and start. I never gave a thought to the alternator holding things up. Fortunately, our local "guy" when it comes to alternator-starter issues has re-opened as a Battery Outlet store and will check all systems regarding electronics free. I've known him for over 30 years and he has saved me tons of money on starters, alternators, and all things related to electricity in a vehicle.
http://www.merchantcircle.com/....Outlet.941-484-2589

I doubt that a seized alternator would stop an engine from cranking - you'd get some shrieking from the frozen pulley. If the alternator is frozen, likely the battery was low and there wasn't enough juice to crank.

That said, clean the ground wire terminals for the battery on the engine block.

Danny, I had the same problem on my starter. It was the ground wire. Check the engine ground to chassis.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Z:
We have stopped for gas and the starter just gives a groan when I hit the key. I can usually mash the AUX START button and after one or two clicks it will spin fine and start.

Much of the heat problem with gas pullers is from heat soak after a hot shutdown. This can be somewhat minimized by idling for several minutes before shutdown. Even better is a thermostatically-controlled electric fan mounted closely behind the radiator. Mine senses the heat rise in the upper radiator hose and kicks in shortly after shutdown and runs for 15 minutes or so, until it senses things have cooled off. This air flow keeps the heat from building up in the doghouse. Avoiding heat soak will make your belts and hoses all last longer, too. The electric puller fan also helps in really heavy traffic or slow climbing on hot days, particularly if you switch it on when heating up either the engine or trans is anticipated..A puller fan can also save your bacon if your fan clutch fails. I climbed Cajon Pass with a failed fan clutch, and the electric puller prevented overheating. The only way I knew the fan clutch had failed was the lack of roar near the top.

Starter solenoids are notoriously heat-sensitive on Chevys. They hate after-shutdown heat soak. I have found the Bakelite cap on solenoids already cracked, ready to fall apart if you looked at it wrong. Replace the solenoid with the high heat one, GM 1114458, or 10457024. It includes a shorter return spring, pn 1978281, or 1958679.

The small terminal on the solenoid should have a Belleville spring nut to keep the small connection tight. The start terminal is long and grows when it gets hot, loosening the connection. When it cools down, the stud becomes shorter, and a good connection is restored. The nut is Delco 2030900 and flat washer 131015. Torque to 12 to 17 in lbs.. A Belleville washer is better than a split lock washer because it provides 360 degree pressure rather than in just one spot. If you can’t get the GM Belleville nut/washer, use a toothed lock washer. That stud growing is why Chevies are notorious for not starting when hot, but OK when cooler.

A heat shield is a good idea, too. GM sells a heat shield for the solenoid, pn 10068600, but I prefer one that also shields the starter as well. After I have it installed and the wiring routed, I add a little more Thermo Tech shielding around the solenoid with their tape to hold it in place.

Install a direct ground cable from battery to a starter mounting bolt. Or at least from the chassis to a starter mount bolt. I like to run a cable from a starter mount bolt to the same bolt where the frame is grounded to the battery, but all RVs are a little different. But all RVs like a toght clean ground.

If you feel like a new starter, the Chevy mini-starters are smaller, but more powerful, and allow some extra distance from the hot exhaust. There are other good mini-starters out there, but stock GM will be easier to have repaired if you have a failure far from home. The GM mini works fine on the 502s in both our RV and boat. The boat 502 is pretty high compression, with a lot of advance, and the stock GM mini starter does fine.

Be sure the starter mounting bolts are the shouldered GM bolts, not hardware store bolts, which can allow the starter to misalign and bite you later.

Be sure that the threads and nuts match on the large solenoid terminal. Some solenoids have metric threads, which will accept US nuts, but not a good fit.

Pull the end cap and inspect brush length.

Back to the seized alaternator.............I have never seen a seized Delco alternator. They usually announce an impending bearing failure well in advance of anything dramatic happening.

I know a Chevy starter will turn an engine with a frozen AIR pump.

quote:

Be sure the starter mounting bolts are the shouldered GM bolts, not hardware store bolts, which can allow the starter to misalign and bite you later.

And carry a few shims, as GM starters can need alignment. On my AMG/GM 6.5L TD, I had to replace the starter, and fortunately, it aligned without shims the first time. This isn't, however, always the case.

Rusty:

Can you expand on your shim comment? How do I check that the gap for the starter motor is correct?

Thanks:

Timothy

Rusty - The belt was shreaking and I turned the engine off. After that I never could get it to turn over at all. So I took out the battery and had it charged, but no help. Anyway I am now the owner of a new starter, new alternator and new belt. WHATEVER.

Tigger

quote:

Originally posted by timnlana:
Rusty:

Can you expand on your shim comment? How do I check that the gap for the starter motor is correct?

Thanks:

Timothy

If you have no sounds of the starter straining (running easier on part of the flywheel rotation than others), or a grinding sound, you are likely OK. Note that shims are not always required.

Here is a brief guide.

BTW, it would help in some tech advice cases to know the year, model, and engine...

Rusty:

1973 Barth 25 footer. P30 Chassis with 454.

Thank you.

I had no idea how much I was going to learn after we purchased our Barth. This is fun. The people here are sure great.

Timothy

Hi Tim......How ya been?

HERE is a starter discussion from a while back.