Engine turns over fine.
What I have determined so far.. It is getting gas, but it is not getting any spark..

I am thinking that this could be the ignition module or the coil.
How do I determine for sure and should I updgrade to MSD or Jacobs ignition while I am doing this. Although I do not want to start just replacing parts, it appears this could be original coil and ignition parts and would probably be a good idea to replace these 17 year old parts anyway...
Suggestions really appreciated as I am anxious to use the new Barth...

This is a Ford 460 with Carb.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray:
Engine turns over fine.
What I have determined so far.. It is getting gas, but it is not getting any spark..

I am thinking that this could be the ignition module or the coil.

OK, I know zilch about Fords, but I have some general automotive knowledge that might apply. Here goes:

I guess "no spark" means that you have no spark at at least one plug. Have you checked several at the plug nipple?

Is the coil inside the dist cap or is it separate?

If it is separate, it should have a nipple with a fat wire leading out from it to the distributor. If that is true, remove that wire from the distributor and hold it 1/4 inch from a ground. Have someone else crank while you look for spark. Is there spark?

If yes, remove the dist cap and look around. Go ahead and replace both cap and rotor. It never hurts to replace an old one.

If no, replace the wire from the coil to the cap. Again, always a good idea.

Any spark?

If no, does the coil have two small stud terminals on top? One wire should come from the ignition switch, maybe by way of a resistor or resistance wiring. Remove that wire and check for 9-12 volts when the ignition is turned on.

Any power?

If there is power at the wire, remove the coil and have it checked. Check the wire from the coil to the distributor. If the wiring is good and the coil tests good, it could be the module or the pickup inside the distributor. My GM and Chrysler experience has been that coils die slowly and modules die suddenly.

If there is no power there, work backwards to the ignition switch. There could be a resistor or resistance wire between the ignition switch and the coil. The ignition switch could have a terminal on it marked I for ignition. It could also have a terminal marked A for accessories. Both should be hot when switch is on.

quote:

How do I determine for sure?

You buy a manual or talk to a Ford guy.

Or you fake it like I am here.

quote:

and should I upgrade to MSD or Jacobs ignition while I am doing this.

No.

quote:

Although I do not want to start just replacing parts, it appears this could be original coil and ignition parts and would probably be a good idea to replace these 17 year old parts anyway...

Yes. New cap, rotor, coil, plugs, leads, etc is a good idea every few years. Plug leads, in particular, especially on an RV. That used to be called a tune up. Replacing the parts one at a time lets you know which removed part is bad, and you throw it away. Then the others are spares. Spares are handy, and can be useful for later trouble shooting.

I think Bill NY and Eddie Chevalier know way more about Fords than I do. Actually, Hillary knows more about Fords than I do.

The immediate issue could very likely be condensation in the distributoe cap; pull it an dry with a hair dryer. Then try it again. Bas plug wires could also be an issue; but the symptom there is rough running - except the tower wire (from the coil secondary to the distributor..)

As bill h mentioned, replace the distribor cap and rotor, the coil, and sparl plug wires (sets of which usually include a tower wire.

Thanks much,
That info is just what I was looking for and if Hillary knows more than you about Fords, then I know less than Bill...

I will let you know how it turns out.

Is this a carb or fuel injection?

My ignition control mudule is located behind the right/passengers side headlight assy. It is an aluminum looking item and I have replaced mine.

The ORANGE & PURPLE wires attach to the magnetic pickup coil and that is located inside of the distibutor. These go bad all of the time and I have replaced mine.

The GREEN wire connects to the negative terminal of the coil.

The RED wire connects to the positive terminal of the coil.

The WHITE wire connects to an ignition relay that I have replaced.

The BLACK wire is grounded.



The item that says "Pickup Coil" this coil is located inside of the distributor and is a magnetic pickup device - you can remove it and check to see if there are metal flakes on the magnetic pickup. The "tone wheel" sends a pulse when it interupts the magnetic field and that triggers the ignition module to pulse the ignition coil that then sends a spark to the distributor.

'My ignition control module is located behind the right/passengers side headlight assy"

That's your problem. Older Fords are notorious for this (sudden, unannounced) failure. All are located in plain sight somewhere on a fender shield or, as in a large truck, perhaps bolted to a firewall, etc. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunner:
'My ignition control module is located behind the right/passengers side headlight assy"

That's your problem. Older Fords are notorious for this (sudden, unannounced) failure.

While this is very true, do not fall into the trap of only replaceing this and then giving up if it doesn't work.

The ignition relay was hanging upside down and had severe corrosion inside of mine from collecting rain and snow runoff and was failing. There is also the pickup, the coil, the rotor, the cap, and the coil wire to look at too.

Using this chart you should be able to diagnose a cause of failure and change the correct part.

FINALLY!

Good!

I am glad to see some members with Ford knowledge posting. I try to stay out of areas where my knowledge is limited, but still want to help. I waited a day and a half before trying to help a New Barth Owner, hoping for more knowledgeable information to appear.

Apres Mois, le Deluge

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
FINALLY! Good! ...I waited a day and a half before trying to help a New Barth Owner, hoping for more knowledgeable information to appear.

Are you sure about that timeline bill h?

Edit 2:07pm: Nevermind - I found the other post titled Good news and bad news about this.

My advice to Ford fans is limited to drag racing. We try to not use any stock Ford ignition parts for a start. MSD is the preferred distributor for drag racing.

This Barth has a Carb.

There is no spark coming out of the Coil.
I have 12v supply to the coil. I tested the continuity of the coil and it appears open. So I will replace it first.

First question , is there any advantage to upgrade to a MSD coil.
Second,what is your thoughts on replacing the ignition module now while I am at it.
It appears to me that the coil and ignition module are original ( 17 yrs old). (There were no records that they were replaced by previous owners).

Thanks much for the guidance and excellent drawing I really appreciate it.

Well i guess i can throw my 2 cents in too. i have an older boxtruck e350 with the 460 in it. and like gunner
said,the fords are "notorious" for them ignition mods going without warning,..i have experienced this more than once.i always keep a spare,cuz ya never know when that darn mod goes kaput!

ZIM

Not just Fords - the coil on my old SOB GM 5.7L) crapped out - just 6 miles from my repair shop, homeward bound on a 1200 mile trip.

Update.

Replaced the coil today and that did not fix the problem.
I will take the ignition module in and have it tested to see if it is bad next.

FYI... this engine is a 89 but the records at the auto parts store show a different coil for this year. I had to use a coil from a 86 Ford 460 to match.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Ray:
I had to use a coil from a 86 Ford 460 to match.

These are 2 style of ignition control mudules found on Fords. One style attaches to the distributor and the other is remote mounted.

In addition to these mudules you have a tone wheel that picks up the magnetic disturbance that makes or breaks the contact (like a set of points) and this causes the ignition module to pulse the ignition coil.

This style module is attached to the distributor. Item#: ECHTP31 Napa Price: $98.99


This style module is attached to the distributor. Item#: MPETP31SB Napa Price: $37.99



This module is attached to a fender or firewall. Item#: ECHTP40 Napa Price: $85.49


These parts can be purchased from Napa.

www.NapaOnline.com

You might want to remove the distributor cap and see if the distributor is turning. Sometimes the shear pin will break and the distributor will not move. If this happens then you'll have no spark because the pickup does not sense movement and it will not pulse the module.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong. Just swapping parts around will cost you money and time.