Does anyone know the suggested weight of a vehicle towed behing a 1985 Barth Regency with the detroit engine 225hp/ 4 spd allison auto.trans.
I've been looking a Jeep wranglers as a second vehicle and to tow. Most of the ones I've looked at have a curb weight of 3500-3700lbs which I thought might be too heavy. Should I be looking at Geo Tracker/Suz.SideKick or similar vehicles? I like the idea of the four wheel drive for camping. I did find a 1992 Mits.Mighty Max pick-up (extra clean-garaged ) with a
topper- curb weight 2500lbs. However two freinds advised me that Mits. don't make pick-up trucks anymore and parts may be hard to find . Well it wasn't four wheel drive so I guess I'll pass on that one. I favor the Jeep idea but if it is too heavy I guess I'll have to down size. Any suggestions about the Jeep or jeep like vehicles?
Thanks, Jim & Barb

I am not speaking from actual experience, but from information gleaned from other RV boards. I have picked up the following bits of what may be useful information.

Total weight of everything, best case, would be about 1 hp per 100 #, so that would give you a CGVWR of 22500#

DC said on the RVT Board
> -----that you "need" at
> least 300hp for a coach that actually weighs ~30,000 lbs. While our '98 CC
> Intrigue has a GVWR of 30,000 lbs and weighed 26,175 lbs fully loaded (3,825
> lb safety margin!!), it has the 325hp Cummins turbo-diesel, making for a
> real hot-rod (for a motorhome ). And we normally get ~9-1/2mpg at
> 60-65mph, towing our ~3,200 lb toad.

And the Suzuki seems to be the Best for the least $$ and ## as a toad.

This a a quote from the RVT Board -- KB said ---
> Suzuki Sidekick/Grand Vitaras are cheap (*especially* if you shop
> used), good off-roaders, and easily towable. Put it this way, I was
> trying to sell mine for trade-in, as we don't need *3* cars, but it's
> such a perfect toad, it got a reprieve, and we'll keep it 'till it
> dies.

FWIW YMMV

I would prefer to see a formula that used torque and RPM rather than horsepower.

Short version: Horsepower is what you drag race with. Torque is what you tow with.

Long version: My 95 Chevy pick up with the 454 LT9 TBI engine has 230 hp at 3600 rpm and 385 lb ft torque at 2000 rpm. My Jag has a 300 hp engine (LT-1 conversion) with 340 ft lbs of torque at 3600 rpm. The truck will pull a house, but the Jag will not, even though it has much more power and almost as much torque, albeit at a much higher rpm. So horsepower is not everything.


My Barth has a 325 hp engine with 518 ft lbs of torque at 2800 rpm. The horsepower is almost the same as the LT1 in the Jag, but the torque is quite different, as is the rpm for the torque peak. And, of course, there is a MONUMENTAL difference in weight pulling ability of the two engines, even if each were driven at its torque peak.

I have had similar experiences and observations with other vehicles, as well, having towed all my life.

I know this is a gasoline comment in a diesel discussion, but I believe torque is torque and the laws of physics are immutable. Some later 5.9 cummins have 300 hp, and so do some 8.3 cummins. But the 8.3 has a lot more torque, and tows better. So the horsepower formula might not be the way to rate diesel towing ability.

I have never owned a diesel MH, so you diesel folks feel free to slap me down if I am wrong here.

[This message has been edited by bill h (edited April 04, 2004).]

I don't know much about formulas but I do know that the Tracker makes an excellent toad. We have towed ours all over the USA including the Sierra and Rocky Mountains behind our GMC Motorhome (450 Olds) and our 28' gas Barth (454 Chev). Also is a great second car around town and in the snow/ice too.

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Gary & Edie
North Idaho
1988 28' P-30 454

Jim & Barb,
glad to see that you have the barth back on the road.
we pull a 98 cherokee classic with our 205 hp detroit. we weigh in at about 3450 lbs with my 2 electric scooters in it. the scooters are the defining factor as to why we have the jeep rather than a tracker or something lighter.
We do fine towing with this set-up, but with some behavior modifications. see, i used to be a leadfoot louie and it ain't going to happen with this rig. i have adjusted to running at about 2850 rpm and around 65 mph. on the flat. this seems to be the sweet spot on our rig where we get the best fuel economy at the easiest on the engine, ie... almost no oil consumption. when we hit a large hill i know i am going to be running 50/55 by the time i reach the top. in the mountains, ie... hwy 101 northern california i dropped to as slow as 20/25 in some places. my consulation is in those spots most of the semis aren't doing much better and it seems easier on the coach. some people can't live with this. i have learned to and am not all that frusterated by it, but again it took some adjustment on my part to reach that point. hope this helps some.

mike

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mike foster
83-35' regency 8.2 detroit towing 98 cherokee classic 4x4

quote:

Originally posted by Jim & Barb Rustige:
Does anyone know the suggested weight of a vehicle towed behing a 1985 Barth Regency with the detroit engine 225hp/ 4 spd allison auto.trans.
I've been looking a Jeep wranglers as a second vehicle and to tow. Most of the ones I've looked at have a curb weight of 3500-3700lbs which I thought might be too heavy. Should I be looking at Geo Tracker/Suz.SideKick or similar vehicles? I like the idea of the four wheel drive for camping. I did find a 1992 Mits.Mighty Max pick-up (extra clean-garaged ) with a
topper- curb weight 2500lbs. However two freinds advised me that Mits. don't make pick-up trucks anymore and parts may be hard to find . Well it wasn't four wheel drive so I guess I'll pass on that one. I favor the Jeep idea but if it is too heavy I guess I'll have to down size. Any suggestions about the Jeep or jeep like vehicles?
Thanks, Jim & Barb

To all thanks for the replies. I'll try to figure it all out. I do know like "Ironsides" I will keep my driving at 65mph. I also favor the jeep wrangler for that little extra room. Now I've just been told that the cj jeeps (not the later wrangers) weight in about 2800-2900lbs. I'll have to check that out. Also some rv freinds suggest that when you start your hill climb to go ahead and downshift and not wait for the auto.trans to do it. Is this right? Thanks again, Jim & Barb
Barb just came in and had just talked with a guy who towed a Geo Tracker to Alaska and thru most of the U.S. He stated it towed great and was good for driving around once you got where your going. Only complt.is there is not much room inside.

Jim & Barb, on the down shift for me, yes- i shift by the tach. when i drop to 2400 rpm i drop a gear. when going up a hill i'll let it max at 3000 rpm before upshifting. the trick as i have found at least for us is to keep the rpm's (tourque) up. if i get behind a slow mover at the beginning of a big grade i'm scr----, you know, in trouble.

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mike foster
83-35' regency 8.2 detroit towing 98 cherokee classic 4x4

Mike, Thanks for the info on the downshift. I also found that when driving thru congested areas in city traffic I leave it in 3th gear. It seems to help a lot with braking. Just picked up the Barth (again)it got a very small leak in the radiator and also replaced some steering parts. Yep' wife is not too happy about the cost- since we also need two front tires. They are waaaaay out of date. Still look good but don't want to risk it. The ole Barth really runs good now. The engine is smooth and the steering feels much better. I will add some Barrs stop leak to the radiator. I found out from more then several people that not only is it good to prevent leaks it is an excellent water pump lubricant. I need all the help saving this radiator. The radiator shop put it under pressure and it developed 21 other seep holes over the one I knew of. The guy fixed it stated that it is ok now but if anything should happen to it again it will be time for a new core- -ouch'' I say.
Jim

Jim, watch that radiator closely. the biggest killer to the 8.2 that i know of is excessive heat. they just will not stand for overheating. mine started to heat up going out west through wyoming in 2001. when i got back i (per les hougland) decided to wash it out with gunk and the power washer. (les told me to use a garden hose) me being the intelligent one thought , hum, power washer will get it cleaner. man it did too. when i got done i had rusty water/antifreeze running out all over. $1100 later, doing the takeout/reinstall myself i had a new 5 core radiator built. (old was 4 core) since then i have had NO heat problems even going up and down I-17 in arizona pulling the jeep.
in my own defense, the old radiator was junk, just crumbling when inspected. barsleak is good. i use it rad,engine,tranny.

mike

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mike foster
83-35' regency 8.2 detroit towing 98 cherokee classic 4x4

Jim, I'd bet the 4-door Tracker/Suzuki 4x4 equals or exceeds the interior space of the Jeep CJ, at a weight of 3100 lbs. +/-.
They easily hold 4 passengers plus a load of groceries. They will tow wheels-down with auto. trans., if you replace the the factory automatic front wheel hubs with manual hubs, a simple job. Manual hubs are readily available @ J.C. Whitney, or your local 4x4 shop.

The Sport Sidekick (previous years), or Grand Vitara (current model) have a few bells & whistles as well.

I tow a '96 Sport Sidekick with our 33' gas Regal - Chev 454. My wife loves it. Touted on to it by a friend who tows a '96 Tracker behind a 31' 5th wheel, behind a 460 c.i. Ford F250. He off-roads with his Tracker, and his club takes on some really rough country.

Now you guys have me expanding my search for a toad from two legs--opps meant two door to a four door. I just would like to keep the weight down. I did spot a four door tracker the other day but it was two wheel drive auto trans. My wife likes the auto trans and I'm in favor of it as long as it is four wheel drive.
To keep the ole Barth running just a little cooler I already replaced the thermostats from 180 to 170s. On two different test drives of about 40 miles the temp doesn't make it to 180. So far it is running about 178 for the engine and around 180/185 for the trans. So much for now- have to price Michlen tire for the front. I can't remember right now but I think Michlen has a special motothome tire. Thanks
Jim & Barb

Checked out the Tracker. A 2002 with 30K is around $12,500.00 here about, a Honda CRV is $15K. I am leaning toward the Honda.



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Dave - Be sure to check the wheels-down towability of the CRV w/& w/o auto. & 4wd. It is a little more elegant than the Tracker/Suzuki, but likely somewhat heavier too.

Thanks Roy,

The CRV is totally towable 4 down under every configuration. They say it is one of the most popular toads anywhere. Plus the size conforms handsomely to my oversize butt.

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Just thought I'd pass this on to all in reference to tires for the Barth size 9R22.5.
I'v always bought Michelin tires for my van and my wifes car. At least for 16 or more years and never had any problems with them.
HOWEVER-- to get to the point when I went to get two tires for the Barth they did not have them in stock and it was going to take about seven days to get them in. I asked the tire installer if he knew of any problems with the Michelin tire on class A motorhomes as I found one site on the internet that discussed some serious problems with the Michelin rv tires. The installer advised me that Michelin has had several problems with the rv tires and has had about three recalls on the tires. He did say overall Michelin makes a good tire but for some reason has been having problems with the class A rv tires. Anyway I ended going with the Goodyear RV tire. The installer stated he does not know of any problems and in fact many people have stated the Goodyear tire had less side sway or wandering. On the drive home 38 miles I'll have to say I am pleased with them. As the old saying goes--everything happens for a reason. Just a short note to Mike- I added two jars of Barrs and topped off the radiator before driving down to get my tires and held my speed at 60-65 down and back. My temp. gauge stayed just at 170 and never went over. Now I starting to feel good about the radiator again. Like you said these engines do not like to run hot.
A Blessed Easter to all.
Jim & Barb