These valves can be identified by the integrated design - meaning that if there's a total malfunction, to access the mechanism, the valve has to be removed. The black water valve on my Breakaway has jammed shut. The "manual override" is operated by a screw (which doesn't override nuthin' on mine, as the gears are jammed). Based on the wear on the slot of the dinky little screw, this isn't the first time.

Since these Drain Masters can't be serviced or operated in the event of various modes of failure, I recommend considering removal and replacement.

What I got was a standard Valterra 3" waste valve and a separate Auto-Drain 2 that is a bolt-on. This has two advantages (It'd better for over $125!) - it bolts onto the manual valve with little modification, and allows restoration to full manual if needed, and the unit can be user-serviced (even a parts sheet is supplied). It's also considerably more robust than the Drain Master mechanism.

I think I drove behind someone with one of those once.

On a motorcycle.

"Queasy Rider"?

You could be on a boat.

What not to do!

Bill N.Y.

I've got the Valterra electric, and I think it's a piece of junk. After tearing it apart and completely rebuilding it because [I thought] some bonehead didn't get the seals in right and the gate couldn't close properly, the seals aren't right and the gate doesn't close properly. They worked fine before final installation, and the gate even opened and closed using the switch. Put it all together and the gate must be helped along with the screwdriver to open and the seals once again rolled up to prevent a good seal when closed. I'm going back to the tried and true hand gate, it's at an easy access place and I can pull a lever and push it back in as easy as push a button, turn a screw, then push the button again, then push the other button and crank it tight to try to stop the unstoppable leaking so when I remove the cap next time I don't have a flood before the gate slows it down to a trickle, or is that tinkle? The Dave Mathews band "event" was one of the biggest bonehead moves by a non-government entity ever!

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Zeeff:
The Dave Mathews band "event" was one of the biggest bonehead moves by a non-government entity ever!

I wonder how many times he and others got away with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Zeeff:
I've got the Valterra electric, and I think it's a piece of junk. After tearing it apart and completely rebuilding it because [I thought] some bonehead didn't get the seals in right and the gate couldn't close properly, the seals aren't right and the gate doesn't close properly. They worked fine before final installation, and the gate even opened and closed using the switch. Put it all together and the gate must be helped along with the screwdriver to open and the seals once again rolled up to prevent a good seal when closed. I'm going back to the tried and true hand gate, it's at an easy access place and I can pull a lever and push it back in as easy as push a button, turn a screw, then push the button again, then push the other button and crank it tight to try to stop the unstoppable leaking so when I remove the cap next time I don't have a flood before the gate slows it down to a trickle, or is that tinkle? The Dave Mathews band "event" was one of the biggest bonehead moves by a non-government entity ever!

The new manual valve is in. The Auto Drain 2 is an external unit that operates the waste valve as if it were the T-handle.

BTW, it sounds like a section of flex drain would help.

Well I made some interesting discoveries today on the failed Drain Master valve.

First, it's not designed to be serviceable; using a bit of redneck injeneering (cold chisel and pry bars), I got the case apart.

There was no evidence of what caused the bind! Loose reassembly allowed the valve to work as designed.

IMHO, this is worse than finding something wrong - erratic operation/failure of unknown origin.

So the remaining (grey-water) valve will also be replaced.

Edit - I should also have mentioned the puzzling paradox that the drive materials appear to be first-rate - there is no apparent reason why this thing shouldn't have lasted a lifetime. But it didn't...

In response to an email detailing the issues I had with the valve, I had an interesting and informative - and very cordial - half-hour phone conversation today with Doug Swarts, President of Phase Four, which manufactures and markets the Drain Master.

My impression that he's dedicated to producing as reliable an item as is feasible; we discussed several design changes that I proposed, and some Doug is implementing. One, the design of the valve gate, will be quite usefull (it'll have a sharpened edge to cut obstructions to closing). The other is a sensible redesign of the manual override.

We also chatted at length about some of the failures he's encountered - ones Barth owners wouldn't relate to...first is the RV builders' quality control - including consistently installing waste handling equipment (he looked at six identical models from one manufacturer - which he wouldn't name - and found forty differences among them...)

The second is the handling by the users. I won't bore anyone with details, but it was both enlightening and entertaining; knowing that nothing can be made sailor-proof, I could relate....

Anyway, the bottom line is that Phase Four stands behind its products; when the new override design hits the pipeline, I'll get one - at no cost.

More importantly, he revealed that there's a second way to override, not noted in the instructions. It requires a modicum of mechanical aptitude (not rocket science), but it certainly would be quick and easy to implement. This can be obtained by calling the Phase Four toll-free number. I agreed not to disclose the technique, because he'd rather his customer service technicians walk a user through the quite simple process.

So, I'm retracting my suggestion that Drain Master valves be replaced, as it's quite likely a defunct valve, even out of warranty, could be made to work manually, and would be replaced without charge. I'd also suggest anyone with these valves call Phase Four and learn the second override procedure before it's needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
first is the RV builders' quality control - including (in)consistently installing waste handling equipment (he looked at six identical models from one manufacturer - which he wouldn't name - and found forty differences among them...)

Forty, huh? LOL. Perhaps that explains why SOB makers don't provide diagrams or circuit drawings. My next door neighbor and one of my friends had identical coaches, and I got to be their spark chaser. You guessed it, they were way different. Same factory, same year, same coach. WAY different wiring. I had a trailer that had a twin in the same park with the same layout and cabinets, but different sized doors and shelves, as if they just grabbed what was leaning against the wall of the shop when they threw it together. Even one window was different.

Yeah, and he even discussed a chronic problem with what's considered one of the up-upscale coaches; his point is that many of these manufacturers are stuck in 30-year-old concepts...

And I forgot to mention that when I told him I have a '94 Barth, he went ecstatic, agreeing that it was one of the best coaches ever made - I mentioned it was a "Baby Newell" (since he mentioned Newell as at the very top), he agreed, "Yup it was!"

It gets interestinger and interestinger....

I stopped by the local RV dealer (EXCELLENT store, parts, and service departments) and was chatting with the parts manager and mentioned the Drain Master and my Conversation with the Prez; he said he doesn't carry them anymore because they work for a while and then break. He wasn't pleased, either, with the handling of returns and credits.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
It gets interestinger and interestinger....

Simple is gooder.

That dealer no longer carries anything electrical for waste dump valves, period.

I vote with Bill H.

The old adage for race car special & hot rod builders was, "Simplicate & add lightness." Today's motto for RV & accessory mfrs. seems to be "Complicate & add heaviness."