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I think I have come up with a reason for the numbers starting over for the Regency and Monarch lines. The first Regencies were actually built by MCC and had a number starting with 0001, when Barth took over the company, they just continued the Regency numbering starting with about 0040 and continuing to probably to about 0170. Because of Gunner's coach number M0022, I had originally thought the Monarchs had started over and had their own numbers. We now have a 1996 Regency coach number M0012. That leads me to believe that when the company was sold in 1995 or 1996, the new company started the numbers over at M0001.
Does anybody else have any thoughts on the reason for the numbering changes?
"5+ Years of Active Membership"
Top line of data tag
This is a 32 foot, Ford 460 gas powered, John Deere chassis, with a single rear axle, and full Banks addon. Inside is set up with rear twins, center streetside bath, no dinet.
Vectra Grand Tour 34
nice coach jack
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Nick, how goes the project?
It seems like you should have a better understanding of total production numbers and the decoding of the tag info.
I am hoping for a summary to get some of our newest members to contribute their Data Tag info without them having to read thru all 8 pages. But, if the summary is interesting enough, some just might do that.
How many have you collected? Is there any that doesn't fit properly? What is some of the biggest stumbling blocks so far?
If anyone hasn't contibuted to this project yet, I have to ask. Why not? This site is about the history of our coaches. This project is worth the time and effort. Please contribute your Data Tag info.
BTW: Great job Nick!
SUMMARY OF PROJECT AS OF FEBRUARY 19, 2008
So far we have collected sixty (60) data tags. We have 45 tags from the original numbering sequence that include all units that were not Regencies or Monarchs. Fourteen (14) Regencies and one (1) Monarch.
While I feel we are a long way from knowing the meaning of all characters at the end of the tag number, I am very confident about the first digits. The first four are the year and month of production. I cannot be sure if it was the month entered into production or the month the unit was scheduled for completion. If the tag date was posted along with the Data Tag number it seems to always be the same as the month code in the third and fourth position. A couple of them are off by one month.
The next four digits are the build sequence and so far ALL units have fit properly in the date code in that the sequence is always larger for a later date. The oldest tag collected is sequence 0899 built in January, 1971. The newest tag from the original sequence is 3934 built in September, 1994. That gives us a total of 3035 units built in this sequence. This includes all coaches, commercial units, and specialty trailers built in this time period. That is an average of 132 units per year.
All units built in the seventies used a coding that include MC (motor coach) in the ninth and ten position followed by a two digit number for the length of the coach. In the eighties and nineties these positions were reversed and the ninth and tenth positions were the length and the next two were model and chassis.
After the first twelve digits is where the problem starts, most all units have from one to three additional characters but I have not been able to make any determination about their specific meaning. I'm sure it has to do with floor plan and major options but do not have enough information to decode. I think we would have to know much more about each coach to try to determine the meaning. Information such as, floor plan, kitchen curb side or street side, twin beds, full bed, or queen bed, center aisle or side aisle, center door or front door. Anyway you get the picture!
Some of the specific information that has come out of collecting the tags that you might find interesting is that from the first coaches built in the seventies until about 1987, Barth used almost exclusively Chevrolet chassis. There is only one International Harvester and one John Deere chassis that we have the tags for in that time period. After 1987 there is only one Chevrolet chassis and all the rest of the gas powered coaches were built on John Deere/Oshkosh chassis with Ford power. I have know idea why the change other than some economic reason. We also know that Barth was known to build whatever the customer wanted, we have one example of a customer that brought his own used Hendrickson Forward Control bus chassis to Barth and had them build a 37 foot coach on his chassis.
It appears that very few gas powered units were built after 1991. I have no data tags for a gas unit after August, 1991 and that was a police command unit, not a RV. All the tags we have after that are for the rear engine diesel Breakaway.
All of the Breakaways were built on Spartan chassis and the power seems to have been split fairly evenly between Cummins and the AMG 6.5L.
REGENCIES AND MONARCHS
In 1981, Motor Coach Corporation (MCC) begin building a rear engine diesel pusher called the Regency. After building only a few coaches, Barth bought MCC and continued building the Regency. These first Regencies were built on a chassis by MCC and powered by Detroit Diesel. In the middle eighties, Barth changed the Regency to a Gillig or Spartan chassis powered by Caterpillar or Cummins. While either chassis could be combined with either engine, the tags indicate that probably 80% of the Regencies were on Gillig chassis with CAT power.
The numbering scheme used on Regencies was the same as used by Barth but the sequence was started over at 0001. The last tag we have in that sequence is 0167, dated September, 1993.
In 1996, Barth was sold to outside investors and it appears that the new company started the numbering sequence over at M0001. I have reached that conclusion based on the fact that we only have two tags dated in 1996, one Regency numbered M0012 and one Monarch numbered M0022.
It appears that Barth built a total of about 4,200 units in their history. The first 800 were travel trailers leaving a balance of 3,400 coaches and specialty units. Of these it looks like about 300 were rear engine diesels being the Breakaway, Regency, or Monarch.
Missing from the information gathered are any tags from travel trailers or the class C that Barth built. If anyone can get information on any of these units it would help support these conclusions.
Please keep posting tags and I will keep the data base updated. If anyone would like a copy of the data base, it is an excel spreadsheet, let me know and I will send it to you.
Thanks for everyones help. This has been educational.
With the help of Bill NY I figured out which data number to send. I have posted it below. Let me know what it all means if you can. Thanks
1978 Barth 27' 454 Chevy P-30
The number is 9211-3830-33BS-3B
Darrell and Jeannie Moore
'93/94 33' Breakaway-5.9B 230 HP cummins-allison6spd MD3060
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Nick, it seems that based on several of the posts. The Barth Data Tag info was used to register some of the earlier vehicles.
It's possible that because Barth was already using their own numbers they just chose to keep placing that info on the tags and changed the wording to "Model Number" instead of using the VIN designation.
It looks like some of the coaches with a CPL Chassis Number were registered with the Barth ID number as the VIN and anything that doesn't use a CPL number were registered with the Vehicle Chassis numbers as a VIN Number.
I did a Google search and found this at wikipedia
Vehicle Identification Numbers (VINs) are used to uniquely identify motor vehicles. Prior to 1980 there was not an accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats. Modern day VINs consist of 17 characters that do not include the letters I, O or Q.
I wonder what a Class-C Barth had for a VIN number pre-1980?
The 1978 Barth "VIN" number from the data plate inside (S78052413MC24-FP3) that I sent in is not the number used for registration they actually used the GM VIN number from the data plate under the fornt "hood".
1978 Barth 27' 454 Chevy P-30
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Thanks, for clarifying that. We've had several other members tell us they used the Data Tag number for their registration. So I guess, some states used whatever they were told pre-1980 because there wasn't a Federal Standard.
Hey Nick! Sorry it took me a little while to get back to you but my data tag is the following, if I copied it down correctly. There was a rivet right across the last two digits but I think they're correct:
I also noticed that the label said "Date of incomplete manufacture - 5/83.
Does this make mine an '83 and not an '84? Mine is titled as an '84. Just curious.
Hope this helps the cause.
One last note. I read some of the string above and I believe the last five letters and numbers, at least on mine (It's 28FP3, not 28EP3) is the floor plan. If you look at the original Barth Regal brochure I posted awhile back (BIG 2 MEG file), it outlines three different floor plans, 28-FP1, 28-FP2 and 28-FP3. Mine is a 28-FP3 floorplan. I agree that the first four numbers are the month and year of finished manufacture and the next four digits are the cumulative sequence.
Anyways, my 2 cents. Still wonder if I have an '83 that has been mistitled as an '84.
1984 Barth Regal 28'
1941 Indian Four
1931 Indian 101 Scout
1941 Indian Chief w/Sidecar
Ken, I think you are correct in the last digits being FP3 in as much as I have several coaches built in the same time period that are FP 1, 2, or 3.
The incomplete mfg date is when Chevrolet built the chassis. The coach was built by Barth in July and is probably correctly titled as a '84 year model. BTW, my coach is on a Gillig chassis that was built enough before the coach that I had a lot of problems with the insurance company and state department of vehicles trying to title it as a 92 instead of 93. Aren't computer data bases wonderful??? This seems to be a continueing problem now that all states are requiring the chassis VIN number to be used for registration, when in actuality the completion date of the coach should determine year model.
Hope this helps.
New support for earlier conclusions.
The Barth mobile office listed on Ebay here
has a picture of the Data Tag. This is the first gasoline powered unit we have a tag for after Barth RSV, Inc. took over the company. The Data Tag number is 9505-S0002-23L-01, dated 5/9/95 We have earlier tags for one Regency, 9601-M0012-38RL-1C, and one Monarch, 9608-M0022-38MI-4C, dated 10/8/96. These numbers indicate that Barth, RSV, Inc. built 20 coaches in a year and five months.
Formally known as "Humbojb"
Nick, here is the information from our data tag:
Data Tag Number 8411 317229FP3B
Date of Manufacture 11-84
Inc. of veh mfd mfg by Chevy Motor Division
Date of Mfg 9-84
GVWR FR/5000W 8X19.5D
Tires 19.5X6 Rims @ 65psi cold single
Rear 9840W/ 8X19.5D
Tires 19.5X6 Rims @ 65psi cold dual
Complies 11/84 all motor vehicle safety standards
VIN 1GBKP37W5F3304310 Multi Purpose Passenger
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