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Dash is dead, starter gone too.
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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Pretty cold today, but if it warms a bit, I will at least pull 2 valve springs and take a look at the seals.


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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I did get one intake and one exhaust valve spring removed and put in new seals.

The old seals are red I assume silicone like the new ones, they do not have a spring to help seal around the valve stem like the new ones, but they were pretty tight.

They are umbrella seals like my new ones, a boss has been machined on the head and the stem part of the seal does not move, the umbrella rides up and down on this boss making a seal.

The old seals are stiff 30 years old I assume; expected. The part on the boss is somewhat larger in diameter than the new seals so I assume if there was leakage, this is where it happened. Oil sneaking under this area to the stem, I wonder if it enough to burn this amount of oil.

Anyone have experience with this???

BTW it is a pain in butt todo this job. I did take a pic of the old and new seals if I can get PB to cooperate I will post, not much to see though.

Thanks


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/18
Picture of Steve VW
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Sorry to hear it a PITA. If you get frustrated, try just the intake seals. Due to the vacuum in the intake system it is more likely to suck oil past the intake stems.

OTOH, the exhaust valve guides are often more worn than the intakes and there could be some oil getting past.

I'm hoping you see improvement. With the good compression numbers you got, the rings should not be the problem. Good luck.


8607-3346-33TFPOB-----9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
400 hp fuel injected-------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 3474 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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quote:
Sorry to hear it a PITA. If you get frustrated, try just the intake seals. Due to the vacuum in the intake system it is more likely to suck oil past the intake stems.


Steve I pulled a second cylinder, again the only problem I can determine is that umbrella part of the seal is much larger in diameter than the new ones and stiffer.

I guess all I can do is finish the job and do a test run. The exhaust seals seem a bit wider than the intake. So I will suffer though, doing the easy side now, hope I do not need to pull the A/C compressor on the other side.

If PB ever likes me again I will post a picture or two of the seals side by side

BTW I am using air pressure, putting the rope in there and then getting under the coach turning the crank to bring the piston up was a pain too ..lol


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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Ok have the passenger side with new seals, the ones in the engine center were a bit looser on the valve stem, but very close to the others. Stiffer and larger in diameter.

If anyone else does this job, I would surely use a lever type spring compressor and a trusted friend. The only good thing about this spring compressor is the spring is all set to be reinstalled. Surprisingly the air in cylinder works pretty well. Definitely tap on the spring retainer to loosen the tapered retainers before you compress the spring. I used a magnet to remove them and covered the oil return and push rod holes, afraid I would drop a retainer, specially putting them back in.

Unless I find worse stuff on the drivers side, I am not sure this is my oil use problem, just does not seem bad enough. So any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Another thing, new plug wires have the boots destroyed after about 500 miles, must be hot between the manifold outlets, any ideas?

Good thing I am retired, no time limits except death..


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/18
Picture of Steve VW
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Good advice to tap the valve to release the tapered retainers. I use some grease on them to reintall. Magnet is best. Mechanic

454s tucked in a motorhome are notorious for cooking plug wires. The massive manifolds of cast iron get really hot and stay hot long after shutdown.

Best fix, install headers ($$) More clearance between ports, thinner wall runners cool down quickly, better engine performance.

OTOH, stock wires had heat shields around the leads. They consist of an outer metal sleeve with a thin Mylar (correct spelling) sleeve over each boot.



You could make some out of thin wall tubing. Mechanic
I used fiberglass sleeves like these with good results. 'Bout $2 each.

https://www.ebay.com/p/Titaniu...=282830879592&chn=ps


8607-3346-33TFPOB-----9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
400 hp fuel injected-------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 3474 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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quote:
Best fix, install headers ($$) More clearance between ports, thinner wall runners cool down quickly, better engine performance.


I would really like to do headers and TBI, perhaps over time..Will try your insulator suggestion.

I bought a set of those insulators, thanks for the tip!!


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/18
Picture of crouch38
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quote:
Bob what did yours look like in the back area??


Duane , Mine had a lot of oil over the backside of oil pan & some going on the trans . But there was a puddle on the ground after parking the coach.
There is 4 or 5 bolts to remove the cover on bottom of the trans & you can get a good look to see if oil is coming from the rear seal area .
Look at the picture that Steve posted on page 2 of this post. You will see what i'm talking about . It show's the cover off & you can see the flywheel , also a better view up to where the rear seal area is .
Hope that's not the problem . GOOD LUCK

Bob


Year:: 1986
Model:: Barth Regal
Length:: 25 ft
Engine:: New Chevy 454 HO
Chassis:: P-30
Data Tag Number:: 8606 3339 25FP2
 
Posts: 240 | Location: Wampum , Pa | Member Since: 02-12-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
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Duane , Mine had a lot of oil over the backside of oil pan & some going on the trans . But there was a puddle on the ground after parking the coach.


Bob, I just replaced the starter and was in that area do not remember excessive oil, however I think I will pull that again and look in there more carefully. If I ever get this seal replacement finished. lol

Well I had to pull the A/C compressor to get the driver side valve cover off, in order to get at the springs some of the compressor brackets have to come off too. I only had a holding charge in the system, but will need to re-evacuate it. Decided to take a break before removing some springs, this getting old is for the birds!!

I am still hating P30 engineers!!!


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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Finally, all eight cylinders have new valve seals all I have to do now is adjust the lifters. I am waiting on some new spark plug heat shields, suppose I could get them adjusted but gives me an excuse to postpone it. I griped a bit but it was not that bad a job, lever compressor would really improve the process I think. Umbrella seals do not seal against the boss as I thought, they just provide a cover so lots of oil does not get down the valve stem. I guess a little oil is needed to keep the guide lubricated.

I still wonder, the oil to gas consumption was about 100 to 1, I run my two cycle engines about like that, all though ash less oil, not a lot of smoke some, but not billows either. I checked under chassis again, there is a drop or two of oil coming from the fly wheel area and a coating of dirt on the transmission oil pan, but it is 30 years old. Could it be the rear seal? I would think 2 quarts of oil in 400 or a total 5 in just over a thousand miles would have soaked that area and leave a puddle in my driveway.. any further comments, or even guesses.

A couple of seal pictures are on PB but I have to change browser to Explorer to get them. Maybe later!!

OPEC is going to love me when I go to Snotan..lol

Clueless in Iowa lol


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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So this oil consumption thing has got me by the testacies, In the olden days when gas started to get expensive, maybe .50 per gallon and there were gas lines at the stations, being so smart I bought my first brand new car, a 1973 Chevy Vega. After a year or so it started to burn a bit of oil, I had over 12k miles warranty was over, at 35k I was using about 1++ quarts a fill up small tank 10 gallons if memory serves. Anodized cylinders not the best idea GM ever had, point is burning all that oil and I only saw a bit of smoke and that was at start up not all over the back of the car either??? I wonder at my use rates if I would see a lot of smoke on the RV?? I bought a used Porsche 914..


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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There are three main causes of oil consumption (There are others):

• Valve seals

• Valve guides

• Oil rings

Your compression tests don't rule out oil rings, but the amount of consumption indicates guides or seals.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Posts: 8316 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
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Ok as I see it, engine runs well, have new valve seals the top half on the engine is clean. I am going to keep running shell oil and see if after some time and miles if this consumption quits.

Having the heads redone, or a new engine are not in my budget!!! Done!!!!!


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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One final comment, the engine sounds great, even the little bit of white exhaust seems gone,,,oh well!!!!


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/17
Picture of Duane88
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Defiantly not the rear engine seal, what little oil under there is coming from the drain plug, need a new gasket. Pulled off the inspection cover and the fly wheel is free of any oil, dry as a bone.

Steve if you read this, I sure think I need that new starter, this stock one just does not have the power, I have four shims in it still has some slow spots, might be the fly wheel is not true. Due to its design I can not see how it is engaging the fly wheel.

I am buttoning up all the little stuff, getting ready for a test trip.


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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