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Our Sept trip
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 03/22
posted
We are back from our usual September run to the Reno Air Race and the Silver State Classic Challenge in Ely NV. Business issues forced us to go much earlier then planned to Oregon so many more miles were added to this trip. It was dry camping all the way. Had conditions of very hot to cold and rainy, nearly 100 degrees in the Central valley of CA, 90 in Reno for the first 2 days and got to 29 in Ely NV the first night we were there. On the way back we went thru Las Vegas (didn't stop) and it was back to the 90s. The traffic thru LV wasn't bad but we caught up with the returning gamblers from LA about Barstow and spent the night at Wal*Mart. I15 was a mess for many miles.

Fuel cost was interesting, went we left it was right around $3.29/Gal and found that in Oregon it was actually higher then CA ($3.39/Gal), a first! It dropped in Ely from $3.39/Gal to $2.99/Gal over night, when we arrived back here it was down to $2.89/Gal.

We averaged right at 11 MPG, this is with the A/C on most of the trip and lots of stop and go issues on the return trip. The low was at 10.5 MPG down US50 from Fallon NV to Ely NV, they call it the "loneliest Highway in the US" and it is but it also has something like 11 summits (passes) to go over with 9 of them over 6000 feet and 5 of those over 7000 feet. Not a good place to worry about mileage for sure.

Cummins ran fine, have a slight oil leak around the injection pump (been there for some time but is getting slowly worse) New alternator really helped out a lot keeping the 6 batteries up with all the dry camping, but I still have to address the tensioner, I don't think I got the right mounting plate for the bigger alternator, when the batteries are below 12 volts the belt squeals like a stuck hog off idle, just have to sit for a bit idling to get the batteries up a bit before heading out.

Still have the handling issues but is better since replacing the rear Bridgestones with Michilens, still have Bridgestones on the front. I dialed the toe out to "0" and it is better but still has a tail wag that is excessive. Just doesn't have a "groove" going down the road, always wondering! I have gotten all the spring bushings from Spartan and am looking at the lateral bar now.

Diff wine is getting worse but still not bad, have changed the oil months ago and found some evidence of wear but will change it again now for a comparison. Engine oil consumption is "0"!

After 10K miles we are very happy with the Barth and just have to keep after the small issues.

I will post the information on the alternator change for those interested in getting a much higher output unit, particularly at idle.

Good to be back but looking forward to the next Barth trip!!


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
New Cummins 5.9L, 375+ HP
Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
Tankless water heater
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm glad you had such a great trip. Hope you have many more. 29 degrees huh? Burrr!!! Fuels been fluctuating a lot here too.

The higher the output and the lower the voltage of the batteries the more belts you need at an idle. You could make your pulley size bigger to compensate for the slipping belts but then your "better low voltage charge" would be minimized and your tach reading would be off.

Try to run your genny before heading out. I do, and it helps. When you drop your voltage that low the alternator is straining to charge and slipping on the belts and your batteries are taking a hit in longevity. I'd love to read your article on the alternator you put in and the mods made.

11 MPG is great. The oil leak at the fuel pump is most likely fuel and not oil. Run your finger thru it and smell. If it's oil and you pull it to change the gasket consider sending in your pump for a reman or to have the seals changed out if it's not too crazy in price and your coach is older then a 94.

What air psi are you running at the rear tires? Too much air will give you the wag. Don't go off of the tire sidewall for readings. We talked about air psi readings before here. It's a little way down but he was talking about his ride condition. Also, Try this for some good reading.

http://www.dickmantires.com/inflationtable.html

This guy seems to know what he's talking about as his chart from Toyo shows a variety of psi readings for the same tire. It has everything to do with weight and little to do with what's stamped on the tire. The tire stamping is for the max of the load range for that tire!


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



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Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Bill N.Y.
Thank you!
I'm going to try this idea. i bought new mich. last year but hadn't been on a long trip till 2 months ago. i noticed much more wander than usual on that trip.
difference was 95 max lbs. in the old (11 years i found out later) michs. and 110 lbs in the new.
i ran the old at 90 but am running the new at 110 per sidewall.
Both sets are 22.5x235x8r xrv.


mike foster
83-35' regency 8.2 detroit towing 98 cherokee classic 4x4
 
Posts: 149 | Location: earlham,iowa-usa | Member Since: 01-08-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 03/22
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Thanks for the tip Bill!

I run 105 lbs in the rear and according to the load/psi tables for that tire, should be about right. I weigh in at 12,800 on the rear. Max for the 8R19.5 is 13244 so there isn't much margin left. Front is 6,000 and I am at the limit there as well!

I am trying to get a wheel manufacturer to make a set of 7-7.5 inch 19.5 6 bolt Budd wheels so I could go to the 245R70 19.5, I would go to the "G" rating and have better margin and probably less wag, extreme I know, but, I don't run tires at the max or anywhere close if I can help it.

I usually use the gen set to keep the bateeries topped off,but when leaving early in the AM, I like to start and leave, less noise. The belt tensioner is deffinitely not clocked right, I put the old alternator in with the old tensioner and bracket and measured the force to compare with the new system, new one had 1/3 the force which isn't right. The fan speed isn't up to the old system either, so there is slipage that is excessive. I am now filling the bracket tensioner hole and will re-drill to get the same force. I could use a shorter belt but don't want to go outside of "standard part numbers" so I shouldn't have future sourcing issues.

Will post all later.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
New Cummins 5.9L, 375+ HP
Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
Tankless water heater
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/13
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Ed, are your wheels marked for max pressure?


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: AZ Central Highlands | Member Since: 01-09-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Old Man and No Barth
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I just discovered a previously unrecognized benefit of a tag axle. According to my old Tire & Rim Assn. chart, 4-8R19.5 tires on the rear, max out at 12,280 lbs. @ 100 psi. The old chart doesn't list pressures higher than 100 psi for duals, though it goes to 110 psi & 3500 lbs for singles.

The weights on my 33' Regal SE are close to Ed's - 5760 front & 11,240 rear at normal load. With 6 tires on the rear, according to the chart I could carry 13,460 lbs @ 60 psi.

I've been running 95 psi in front (good for 6340 lbs per chart) & 90 on the rear. I'll knock the rears down to 80 psi & see if it affects ride and/or handling.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: Upper Left Corner | Member Since: 10-28-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 03/22
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Yup, the Alcoas have a rating of 110 psi max!


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
New Cummins 5.9L, 375+ HP
Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
Tankless water heater
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/13
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quote:
Originally posted by olroy:
I just discovered a previously unrecognized benefit of a tag axle. According to my old Tire & Rim Assn. chart, 4-8R19.5 tires on the rear, max out at 12,280 lbs. @ 100 psi. The old chart doesn't list pressures higher than 100 psi for duals, though it goes to 110 psi & 3500 lbs for singles.

The weights on my 33' Regal SE are close to Ed's - 5760 front & 11,240 rear at normal load. With 6 tires on the rear, according to the chart I could carry 13,460 lbs @ 60 psi.

I've been running 95 psi in front (good for 6340 lbs per chart) & 90 on the rear. I'll knock the rears down to 80 psi & see if it affects ride and/or handling.


Roy, I'm a little confused by your figure for rear weight. Is is your rear weight of 11,420 the whole rear or just the drive axle? The tag axle carries whatever weight the air bag pressure corresponds to. For example, 45 psi carries 5200 lbs. So, the tag tires should be inflated to that weight on the chart for your brand tires. And, of course, tag bag inlation affects drive axle weight and inflation. Any weight figure for the drive axle needs tag bag pressure information to qualify it.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: AZ Central Highlands | Member Since: 01-09-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Old Man and No Barth
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The rig (sorry, I'm too old to change) weighs 17,400 lbs. total, with 5760 on the front. 17,400 minus 5760 leaves, 11,640 lbs. (I mis-typed the weight on the erarlier post) on the rear end distributed among 6 tires, 4 on the drive axle, 2 on the tag. Presuming equal weight distribution, that's 1940 lbs. per tire. The Tire & Rim Assn. load limit for 8R19.5 tires at 60 psi is 2230 lbs. dual, & 2270 lbs. single. Hence, those 6 tires could carry a total of 13,460 lbs @ 60psi, more than the rear end weighs now.

I know as a practical matter it doesn't work that precisely, but at least I'm no longer nervous about losing one rear tire at the pressures I normally carry.

At 90 psi on all 6 tires, the tire folks say I'd have a total capacity of 17640 lbs on the rear end, more than the whole rig weighs now, so if I could change the weight distribution & figure out a way to drive it, I wouldn't need any front tires at all.

I haven't tried to weigh the tag & drive axle separately, but this ain't rocket science that demands micrometric accuracy. You can drive yourself nuts trying for precision when there are a ton of variables resulting from variations in the road surface, g-forces from bumps & potholes, weight distribution changes on a crowned surface, the way you load it, etc.

I interpret the tag axle weight ratings at various pressures, as the maximum carrying capacity at those pressures, not what the actual load is going to be at a particular pressure. I know that, as you blow up the air bags, they're going to pick up a greater proportion of the load, but I don't know how, or if one would wish to, measure this effect precisely.

My air bags were set at 40 psi & that's where I'll leave 'em, & I'll blow all the tires up high enough so I know they're within the tire people's specs. It ain't broke so I'm not going to try to fix it. Took me about 40 years to learn that trick, but I will take 10 psi out of the rear tires & see if it affects ride or handling.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: Upper Left Corner | Member Since: 10-28-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
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quote:
Originally posted by olroy:
... so if I could change the weight distribution & figure out a way to drive it, I wouldn't need any front tires at all.
That's funny Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by olroy:
...this ain't rocket science that demands micrometric accuracy. You can drive yourself nuts trying for precision...
I have the answer to this. It's a little device called the LiquidCompensator. It fits onto the airbags and the back side of a fuel gauge and reads the difference in fuel level.

For each gallon used you loose about 8 lbs. While you loose this added weight the airbags will adjust to compensate for the loss in weight. Seeing that a 1/4 tank weighs less then a full tank by about 240lbs on a 40 gallon tank and you can see the advantages.

Buy several and attach it to your water and waste tank gauges. This will level out your coach to micrometric accuracy each time you flush. There sold on the Acme site by a Mr. W.E. Coyote, he's some type of super genius. Roll Eyes

Olroy's right, there are a lot of variables. If you have been running the tires for a long time like this and your tires have been pumped up higher then it should have been then the center section of your tires have less tread. Once you lower your psi the tires will now run on the outer edges and could start to cup.

If you notice on the tire data chart on your coach it shows you the proper reading for the tire that was sold with your coach. Just like your car there is a tag to read. Some cars being heavier and some being lighter the same tire on two different makes could have different readings.

Tractor trailers go down the road with varying weight. They don't bleed the air when running empty or fill them when riding down the road loaded. You don't need micrometric accuracy for those rigs.

Your driving a coach. You would like your coach to handle as close to perfect as possible. When buying new rubber try to remember this and keep the air in the tires to the normal weight of the coaches axles per chart and load range of tire.

When the tire guy sells a tire he might have a lot of tractor trailer tires with a heavier load range. Most tire guys fill your tires to the max psi on your tire sidewall. This will affect ride quality. Too much air makes the back end feel loose and wears out the center section of your tires.

I've had some drivers return with there truck swearing that something was broken on the suspension. This time of the year the drivers start to complain about there tires. They want new rubber before the first flake flies, a.k.a. snow.

After they get the tires they go down the road and think that something has broken loose under the truck. I go out and inspect. Then I let some air out of the tires and explain this all over again. I then have to follow them cause they don't believe it. Companies love paying for road service for that one.


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



Quick Link: Members Only Link To Send Me A Private Message
 
Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
First Month Member
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/13
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
I have the answer to this. It's a little device called the LiquidCompensator. It fits onto the airbags and the back side of a fuel gauge and reads the difference in fuel level.

For each gallon used you loose about 8 lbs. While you loose this added weight the airbags will adjust to compensate for the loss in weight. Seeing that a 1/4 tank weighs less then a full tank by about 240lbs on a 40 gallon tank and you can see the advantages.

Buy several and attach it to your water and waste tank gauges. This will level out your coach to micrometric accuracy each time you flush. There sold on the Acme site by a Mr. W.E. Coyote, he's some type of super genius. Roll Eyes



Believe it or not, you are describing the Center of Gravity Control Computer on the Airbus.

It started out that the French designed the Airbus, and found that fuel burn on a swept wing with dihedral caused the center of gravity to shift. They also found out that different people have different body weight. Their drawing board calculations were so perfect that when a couple of passengers were in the john at the rear of the airplane with a couple more waiting, the aircraft dropped its tail and began to fly nose up. This either made the plane climb or caused more drag, depending on whether or not the pilot chose to stay at his assigned altitude. Either way, more fuel was burned, which more or less compensated, as the center of gravity moved forward again. But the additional fuel burn often meant running out of fuel before the destination. This was no problem over land, or even on Eastbound transatlantic flights, but not good Westbound, as there was no handy island like Ireland. The airplane was also sensitive to movement of food and drink carts being pushed up and down the aisle, but that was resolved by having one stewardess start at the front and one start at the back simultaneously with both coordinating their speed and being sure to serve the same quantity of food and drink to each row of passengers.

So, the French came up with the idea of a "wet" horizontal stabilizer, using it as a fuel tank. Any change in the center of gravity was detected by sensors and fuel was moved back and forth in and out of the stabilizer to compensate, and the airplane flew level with no added drag and consequent higher fuel consumption. I was quite complicated, but the concept was positively elegant in its simplicity. Certainly one of the best ideas from France since the Chauchat or the Citroen or Bucialli Traction Avant.

They borrowed the idea from the 1956 Packard Patrician self-leveling system. Bill N.Y. and I are going to combine Packard's CG correction system with the Army Humvee tire inflation on-the-go system so Roy's tires will always be correctly inflated and his 2500 lb capacity tag axle will never be overloaded. We might get modern and use 1959 Buick Deuce and a Quarter technology, as it was already integrated into airbag suspension. We will also incorporate the system from the Toyota 4Runner that adjusts the rear braking power to ride height.

.


.

OK, I stretched the truth a little on the second paragraph.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: AZ Central Highlands | Member Since: 01-09-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Old Man and No Barth
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As long as I can make it out of stuff I get at the hardware store or junkyard, it's no bigger than a pack of cigarettes, & I
can plug it into a 12v outlet & make it work, I'll buy it. Otherwise fuggeddaboudit.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: Upper Left Corner | Member Since: 10-28-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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Jeez, you guys make it too hard. Just fill the tires with concrete, and be done worrying about it... Big Grin


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Posts: 7734 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bill h:
Bill N.Y. and I are going to combine Packard's CG correction system with the Army Humvee tire inflation on-the-go system so Roy's tires will always be correctly inflated and his 2500 lb capacity tag axle will never be overloaded
Automatic Tire Inflation Systems
quote:
Originally posted by bill h:
We will also incorporate the system from the Toyota 4Runner that adjusts the rear braking power to ride height.
I keep telling you, when we design this, we're going to use the brake system from the ford F-350 & F-Super Duty series! We need to keep them from going bankrupt, they are counting on us to pull them out.

Bill N.Y.
 
Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/12
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Gee...all i did was let all of the air out of my tires and replace it with expanding foam. Never have to check air pressure, tires can't go flat, and i can float across any flooded roads that i may come across. Smiler
 
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