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desperately seeking 3208T belt brand/part no.
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
Picture of Kevin
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With a diligent search I found Nick Cagle's post. Here you will find some NAPA (National Automotive Parts Association) part numbers. Please remember Napa does not make belts either. Included also are in the posting are some dimensions that may apply.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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By the way the adjuster to the left of the antifreeze sticker is one for the air brake compressor, power steering belt. The two larger bolts above it must be loosened first to use the adjustment tensioner. Then remember to tighten the bolts again.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Keith! do you have any pics of the failed belts? Sometimes there's clues as to what the issue can be for the shrapnel. There's lots of these engines out there working so it can you just need some help with the trouble shooting.did you happen to get a cat engine parts book with your documentation, I got one with my Wanderlodge I found it very helpful as a cross reference. I never bought any parts from Cat but I went armed with part numbers when getting filters etc.
Kelly
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta  | Member Since: 07-09-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wow! Thats poorly designed. No wonder the belts fail, reading the text I see what Keith means, he mentions Gillig has a set of belts which are probably just a very high quality tough belt, (Gillig having a belt part number is the confirmation it's an issue)
we'd run into this with lawn tractors, the cheap belts had less cord and didn't have the strength to stand the shock from long runs and varying loads. They may be difficult to source as these motors are getting long in the tooth and typically the high end parts get discontinued first by the bean counters.
Keith you are looking for the best belts you can get your hands on, Good luck!
Another option is redesign the belt arrangement and add a layshaft so you can shorten the runs. It will take some fabrication but it can be done.

Kevin.... so the compressor above is for suspension and accessories only and the other is dedicated to air brakes?

Kelly
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta  | Member Since: 07-09-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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quote:
Originally posted by McMuck:

Kevin.... so the compressor above is for suspension and accessories only and the other is dedicated to air brakes?

Kelly


I am not sure what you mean by "other is dedicated to airbrakes?" I have air brakes, air throttle, air shifter, and air suspension. I also have separate air filter for the compressor that serves these functions. There is no "other" air compressor, except for air conditioning.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have the same belt arrangement as Kevin above and have not had any issues.



1993 34 Regency WB
8.3 Cummins 300HP
 
Posts: 197 | Location: Hendersonville NC | Member Since: 02-02-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Kevin! Maybe I misunderstood, I thought from what you wrote that the large black pulley on the left was an air compressor, and the one at the top looks like an air compressor to me, I don't see an a/c clutch in the pic so I guess I'm not understanding what I'm looking at. My cat experience is limited to the one 3208 that I owned and it was sort of an orphan as the original owner had a small turbo added to a 210 which made a whopping 15hp. It added some desirable qualities but he paid dearly for it at purchase.
Kelly
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta  | Member Since: 07-09-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Doug Smiley
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This was sent to me...

Hey Doug,
I have watched http://www.barthmobile.com/eve...061/m/9433923097/p/1 for some time now.
The guy that asked the original question . . . never really said what his issue with belts was.
Only “has anyone ever seen a Gillig Belt ?”
But many have answered with all sorts of information, but NOT the answer to his Gillig Belt question.
Automotive Belts are made by Gates, Goodyear, Bandag, and a few others, actually ALL made in China for them now.
Those belt makers provide them to the Engine Manufacturers. There might be a Gillig “number” in a Gillig Parts Book . . . but it will be the MAKERS PART NUMBER.
Gillig does NOT MAKE ENGINES or BELTS.

I was going to say so on Barth . . . but many there do not care for “outsider” comments, factual or otherwise.

The guy that asked the original question . . . has not done anything to help those trying to answer his “non-question”, nor been interested enough to make any other entry.
Just what does this guy want ???


_________________________

The 82 MCC {by Barth}
is not an rv--
it is a Motor Coach!!
www.amway.ca/dougsmiley

 
Posts: 2818 | Location: Nova Scotia | Member Since: 12-08-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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quote:
Originally posted by McMuck:
Hi Kevin! Maybe I misunderstood, I thought from what you wrote that the large black pulley on the left was an air compressor, and the one at the top looks like an air compressor to me, I don't see an a/c clutch in the pic so I guess I'm not understanding what I'm looking at.
Kelly

The large black pulley is a Webster Pump. The Webster pump is used to power the Power steering and Hydraulic fan motor. The above pump is the air compressor pump. The air condition compressor is not in the picture. Sorry for misleading you Kelly without a better explanation.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by McMuck:
Hi Kevin! Maybe I misunderstood, I thought from what you wrote that the large black pulley on the left was an air compressor, and the one at the top looks like an air compressor to me, I don't see an a/c clutch in the pic so I guess I'm not understanding what I'm looking at.
Kelly

The large black pulley is a Webster Hydraulic Pump. The Webster pump is used to power the power steering and hydraulic fan motor. The above pump is the air compressor pump. The air conditioning compressor is not in the picture. Sorry for misleading you Kelly without a better explanation.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug Smiley:

Just what does this guy want ???


Let me try to answer this question as if it were me.
Tooling Along Keith just wants to drive down the highway without the fear of losing his air brakes, power steering and alternator. Tooling Along

For some reason Keith keeps having trouble with his 3208 belts. The rest of the Barth owners with a 3208 have not had trouble with our belts must be lucky.
When we hear back from Keith we should have some pictures. Pictures should help us get to the root of Keith's belt problem.
 
Posts: 3750 | Location: Northeast , Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hopper:
I know people are tired of this topic. But I'm parking my Barth until this is solved. I need belt brand, part no. and exact source for belts on 3208T (87-88). Has anyone ever actually seen a Gillig belt?


UPDATE

I still have the Barth but only do maintenance driving to keep it alive. The belts were changed by previous owner's local service just before I bought it in Texas about twelve years ago. So I never saw the true original belts. I think they put the wrong belts on to do it quick. All four of their new batts failed in less than a year. Not surprising me since before our last long trip, I had AC compressor replaced at almost $2K and that belt failed on other coast...turned out it was wrong belt, and not even automotive.

Original belts squealed badly from the start so again and again to the reputable cat dealer...and a dozen or so other places...who just kept replacing them with the same wrong belts. Belts snapped so many times I lost count...very dangerous...we were lucky. Got all the usual advice from the experts and nothing helped. I tried hard to get an exact part number, including on this site, but never got one. This site recommended calling Gillig to find out...I know Gillig doesn't make belts...I know they make the chassis and buy Cat engines. No help even from Gillig. No the belts were not old and I'm very pleased that y'all have belts with 17K miles...but I don't. And I was not looking for brand advice...needed to know what bloody belt fits.

Good Cat dealer in California found best fit Cat belts and next time they failed...this time in Arizona...I had these put on. So far OK.

But I can't trust this vehicle...it could be a catastrophe at the wrong time and place...and I'm not risking it to verify the issue is solved.

FYI the Barth battery box system using rivets caused a battery box to fall out near Albuquerque and the batts were hanging by the power cords...destroyed coach electronics...still having issues.

I love my Barth like all of you do but I'm thinking I must keep this as a cabin. I cannot sell it without disclosing issues and these coaches are old now.




1988 Regency
38' Gillig
3208 T Cat
 
Posts: 172 | Location: Atlanta, Georgia | Member Since: 03-21-2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
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I answered this several years ago when I had a series of failed belts. Short answer is call Gillig and buy two sets of their belts. On a trip after two failures using Gates and Goodyear I limped into a Cat dealer. They looked up the application and changed the belts. Made it only 50 miles before another failure. Gillig has its belts made by one of the manufacturers but they are a very specific length and angle of the sides. You are experiencing belts just slightly too long, less than a 1/2”, and they fail because of the extraordinary long run from the crank to the hydraulic pump. After having them overnight the belts I have never had another issue, but I still carry a new set in the coach.


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1534 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Kieth,

I have gone through six sets of belts in over 5,000 miles.

Have you ever found a solution to the belt issue yet?

Thank you,

Jay
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Arlington,Washington | Member Since: 08-14-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
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quote:



We have not been given any info specifically on which belts are failing, or at least failing first.

I suspect the design of the belt layout is the biggest problem. Looking at the photo it appears there are only 2 belts driving all the loads. The two belts closest to the engine appear to route around the crank, to the hydraulic pump, to the water pump and back to the crank. Meanwhile the air compressor and alternator at the top are driven by the pair of belts on the outside grooves of the water pump.

The top loop has a great deal of load on those two belts. The air compressor is a piston pump which requires a fair amount of torque to run it. Fortunately, the pulley on the compressor is larger in diameter which means it turns slower and has more contact for the belt around its perimeter. OTOH, the alternator pulley is much smaller, therefore turns much faster. It also has less perimeter for the belt to grip. (A bit over 90 degrees) The alternator grip may be a bit marginal, but probably ok. The amount of perimeter available for the belts appears reasonable, IF the water pump were the driving crankshaft pulley.

Unfortunately, it appears that the top belts are driven by the water pump pulley which in turn is driven by the the inside belts from the crank. These belts have less than 90 degrees of perimeter to grip the water pump pulley. Those 2 belts must grip the water pump enough to turn the pump, the air compressor, and the alternator. In addition, they drive the hydraulic pump. (Due to the large diameter of the hydraulic pulley and the nearly 180 degree wrap, I doubt there is a problem there.)

Given the long length of the loop around the water pump and hydraulic pump, the belts will jump around if they are even slightly loose. Meanwhile, the water pump pulley appears smaller than the crank pulley, which means it must turn faster. That and the minimal grip length on the water pump pulley perimeter suggest that there will be slippage of the inner belts around the water pump pulley as they try to drive all those loads. I suspect this is the fundamental problem.

So, what to do? No easy solution... hmm

The problem appears to me the minimal perimeter on the water pump for the inner two belts, to allow enough torque to drive the pump and the upper two belts.

A four groove crank pulley would solve all problems.

Or, I would try to somehow achieve a belt layout that would provide more area for the inner belts to grip on the water pump.

A larger diameter water pump pulley would allow more perimeter length to grip the belts but the water pump would turn slower with possible cooling issues.

This could also be achieved by using longer belts that wrap around more of the perimeter of the water pump pulley with some sort of idler pulley on the slack side?

I would consider using one shorter inner belt to drive around the crank and water pump only. This would allow the belt a full 180 degree wrap. Since the is no way to move either pulley, an idler would be needed to maintain tension. The second belt would be still used for the hydraulic pump, since its large diameter requires less belt tension and provides for more perimeter to grip. Between the two belts, they might then be able to drive all the loads without slipping and burning up.

Food for thought.... Mechanic


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4169 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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    Forums    Tech Talk    desperately seeking 3208T belt brand/part no.

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