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Breakaway body to chassis mounts
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posted
Hi all
I just purchased Mac Gray's 91 30' Breakaway.
So far the biggest problem that I have found
is that some of the coach body to the chassis
mounts are broken. They are made of 2" x 4"
tubing welded to the frame with a bolt going into
the body. The tubing has broken loose & the bolt is broken.
Has anyone else had this problem? I will post pictures
as soon as I figure out how.
Thanks
Terry Gilbert
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
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Yes, I have similar issue. the attachments of mine to the frame is a short length of "C" channel welded to the frame on about 3' to 4' intervals. There is a top plate welded to the top of the "C" channel and a bolt goes up thru the body to somewhere inside. Although the "C" channels have not broken away from the frame, the bolts (3/8" diameter) are pulled down and there is on some bolts where the nut is 1/2 inch away from the top plate of the "C" channel. Overall NOT GOOD but not sure what I will do to fix it. Please post pictures.

Here is a view of one of the attachment bolts that has been pulled down, the rust is bad and the nut can not be tightened.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2148 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Gilbert:
Hi all
I just purchased Mac Gray's 91 30' Breakaway.
So far the biggest problem that I have found
is that some of the coach body to the chassis
mounts are broken. They are made of 2" x 4"
tubing welded to the frame with a bolt going into
the body. The tubing has broken loose & the bolt is broken.
Has anyone else had this problem? I will post pictures
as soon as I figure out how.
Thanks
Terry Gilbert
[IMG:top] [/IMG][FLASH_VIDEO] [/FLASH_VIDEO]
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
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Are these load bearing tie points? Is there normally something filling the gap (rubber mounts?) Obviously the bolts no longer hold anything!

If you need a through bolt for tension, it looks like you'll have to access from the inside and put in a backer plate for a new bolt. If you just need a support pad perhaps you could inject something in the gap (reinforced epoxy or 2-part high density foam?) to cast another support? Good luck!


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 3993 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They are load bearing. In the picture the
Bottom of the piece of tubing should be level
With the frame. It has split and bent down about
an inch. There was a 1/4 inch strip of rubber
between the mount and frame. [IMG:top] [/IMG]


Terry
1991 30 ft Breakaway
160 HP Cummins 4 Speed Allison
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
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Hmm.. has anyone talked to Spartan about it?

Looks like the "final solution" might involve jacking the coach off the frame, rewelding the brackets and replacing pads and bolts... oboy... confusion

Good luck finding an easier solution!


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 3993 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I haven't talked with Spartan about this as I don't know what they would or could do about an issue 20 years old.

I actually think this is more of a Barth issue than a spartan issue as Barth is the one that attached the chassis or box to the frame.

It does appear that my mount system is changed and is probably better but, the bolts on mine are NOT tight. Probably this summer I will deal with this but I am sure I will have to pull up all the carpeting to access or repair the bolts with bigger and YES baking plates. I think my bolts are pulling down thru the Barth chassis. I don't have time to deal with Barth issues now. So many things to get done before I start my racing season in March.

There is duct tape between the chassis frame and the Barth frame but most of that has been squished out.

I think most of these issues are caused buy the leveling jacks. If the jacks are brought down unevenly, there must be a lot of twist exerted on the frame which is transmitted to the body, The body will resist and extreme force will be exerted on the attachment bolts.

I might experiment with this for a few minutes and see if I can cause the chassis and the frame to separate with the jacks, then I will know for sure what is causing the problem.

I think this has the potential to be quite dangerous. If other owners of '91 30' Breakaways on spartan chassis could look and take pictures would be helpful to see if this is a systemic problem.

My mounting system obviously is different than Terry's and does appear to be better but still has not solved the problems.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2148 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Today I took the tires off and the floor out of the laundry closet. I then used a punch to drive one of the broken bolts up thru the floor. It appears that when it was built they drilled thru the steel tubing frame and bolted it to the chassis. When the plywood was installed they drilled a hole to clear the bolt head then filled around it with caulking. The bolt is 3/8 inch grade 5. It was broken about 1/8 inch below the Barth body. There is probably a washer on top of the steel tubing for strength as the bolt is aprox. 2-3/8 long under the head to the break. The steel tubing is exposed in the wheel well and I may cut a slot in it and slide in a piece of 1/2 inch thick steel with a threaded hole and fasten to that. I would then weld a patch over the slot.


Terry
1991 30 ft Breakaway
160 HP Cummins 4 Speed Allison
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Terry, what does the other side of that square tube look like? If that tube is completely hollow it certainly will collapse with the body weight on it. As my picture shows there are feet welded to the side of the chassis frame "C" channel and will not collapse BUT some of my bolts are pulled down. None are broken but they sure aren't holding well either.

After I get back from my Texas trip at the end of March, I will attack this issue on mine. I intend to go up to grade 8, 1/2 bolts and on the inside add a frame rail plate under each bolt.

That is the plan but may change once I get in there.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2148 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ed
The tube between the Barth body and the spartan chassis is 2x4 tubing with aprox. 1/8 wall. I will probably upgrade to a system like yours. My concern is the 2x2 tubing in the floor will now be the weak point. I would suspect that yours either broke the head off the bolt or worse pulled thru the tubing. There is no spacer in the floor tubing on mine so all the pressure is on the top wall. If I put a piece of flat stock inside it would put all the pressure on the bottom wall and stop the possibility of the tube collapsing. I considered a large plate to spread the load on top but there are many clearance issues. The bolt I got out is under the wall between the shower & the laundry closet. It is also right next to the wheel well. The best fix would be remove the shower & closet, cut out a section of the floor, and reinforce the tubing with a spacer welded in. I AM NOT GOING THERE!!! I would also need to do that on the other side of the coach.


Terry
1991 30 ft Breakaway
160 HP Cummins 4 Speed Allison
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I suspect mine has pulled the bolt down in the floor 2X2 stock. I can not pull the bolt out from the bottom and it is loose. If the head were broken off I should be able to pull the bolt out.

I am not sure what I will do once I am in there but I know I will have to do something.

I also have a fairly pronounced ripple on both sides of the coach just aft of the rear wheels. I don't know if this is related.

The ripple does get worse when I am in hotter areas or when the sun is directly on that side so it may e the expansion difference between the aluminum outside skin and the steel frame beneath.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2148 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://www.mwrench.com/barth/c...20frame/SAM_0039.JPG

Ed Try putting a double nut at the bottom of bolt so you can get the upper nut off. Put on some flat washers and put nut back on. Probably have to use the double nut trick again. I'm sure the bolt has just dented the tubing slightly.


1978 Barth 17' Cabin Fever
1997 Barth 23' 4 door Command Center
 
Posts: 539 | Location: LaSalle CO | Member Since: 12-05-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Body mounts are repaired








Terry
1991 30 ft Breakaway
160 HP Cummins 4 Speed Allison
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Uniondale, Indiana | Member Since: 11-30-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nice job! Now that I have most of my mechanical bugs done, I am looking at replacing and reinforcing steel parts. Basement compartment floors, and the square tubing used around the body skirts. Most of the frame stuff still looks OK but not as nice as yours! mechanic

Nice work, I'll bet there are several other coaches out there that could use that kind of attention. Thumbs Up


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 3993 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Steve, I have the same problem with some of the tubing under our Regal. I've talked to a neighbor who does metal work at home and here is our plan
1. Make a wooden template that duplicates the curvature of the 1" tubing. There may be a need for more than one template but all the ones on the sides are the same dimension.
2. Buy 1" tubing and my neighbor will bend it to the exact dimensions required
3. Have the tubing powder coated
4. Remove the lower part of the aluminum skin in the affected areas. It involves drilling out rivets. Bill N.Y. has some info on this.
5. Cut out the rusted tubing
6. Replace with the new fabricated tubing by welding in place
7. Re install skin using aluminum pop rivets. Use large plastic washers to keep the skin and the tubing separate. Use heavy duty duct tape as well to separate the tubing from the skin
8. While you're doing it, you can also repair any storage compartments you need to.
What do you think of this plan?
Jim


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
 
Posts: 3528 | Location: madisonville tn usa | Member Since: 02-19-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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