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Dry Camping - 94 Regency
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Frank Strong
posted
My stay at Yosemite this summer was spoiled because something runs down the house batteries in about 4-6 hrs and then the fridge goes off - when there is no electrical hookup. My old class C did not have this problem when dry camping. Is this normal for Barth Regencys?
The dealer supposedly checked out everything but when I put an amp meter on the batteries there is a 10 Amp draw when the master switch is on with no plug in. I also load tested the batteries and they were OK.
My basic problem is: how can I dry camp without my fridge turning off? Do all Regencys have this problem?


Frank Strong
1994 Regency 34ft
300 HP Cummins, 6 spd Allison
Spartan MM Chassis
 
Posts: 125 | Location: Walthall, MS/Ocoee, FL (Orlando area) | Member Since: 03-20-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Bill N.Y.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
The dealer supposedly checked out everything but when I put an amp meter on the batteries there is a 10 Amp draw when the master switch is on with no plug in. I also load tested the batteries and they were OK.
A 10 amp draw (while large) should not kill good batteries in 4 hours unless...

1) You really have a much bigger draw then 10 amps

2) The batteries were not properly load tested and your batteries are bad

3) You have regular starter batteries instead of deep cycle batteries

4) You don't have enough reserve capacity in your "good" batteries (too small)

5) Shortly after the batteries were load tested one of them developed a short and started to suck down your other batteries

Do you have propane, 12 volt or 120 volt fridge? Is it a 3 way or 2 way setup?

I suspect your batteries are no good or your draw is greater then 10 amps. You need to track down your power usage for the house circuit. I doubt it's just the fridge drawing the 10 amps but I could be wrong.

Do you have a solenoid that also draws down while the house batteries are switched on? Try changing that over to a "Latching Relay" or a manual switch. That will take away that power draw.

Unless you have a way of making power your fridge will eventually run your batteries down. It should take longer then 4-6 hours if your batteries are good.

You might want to consider (a lot of) solar panels to recharge your batteries during the day if you can't run your generator or be plugged in. The problem with this is after the sun goes down you still have more then 4-6 hours of darkness.

Search for the extra draw. Find out what the fridge is drawing just by itself. Consider a more energy efficient fridge. Leave your fridge off and throw the circuit on for the house batteries - check power draw.


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Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
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L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
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Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
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Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Old Man and No Barth
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FWIW - Dry camping with a typical RV absorption-type fridge, one should use propane. The electrical heating element uses a lot of DC juice, & doesn't cool as well as the propane flame.

If you have a house-type fridge with a compressor, you have a different problem. Such fridges with DC compressors are uncommon, & an AC compressor, battery powered through an inverter will run batteries down quickly. The only solution there would seem to be to run the genny. Others might have different suggestions.

10 amps is a big draw with nothing plugged in. It suggests something's not right. I couldn't guess what, but we have several electrical experts who might respond.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: Upper Left Corner | Member Since: 10-28-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Frank Strong
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
The dealer supposedly checked out everything but when I put an amp meter on the batteries there is a 10 Amp draw when the master switch is on with no plug in. I also load tested the batteries and they were OK.
A 10 amp draw (while large) should not kill good batteries in 4 hours unless...

1) You really have a much bigger draw then 10 amps

2) The batteries were not properly load tested and your batteries are bad

3) You have regular starter batteries instead of deep cycle batteries

4) You don't have enough reserve capacity in your "good" batteries (too small)

5) Shortly after the batteries were load tested one of them developed a short and started to suck down your other batteries

Do you have propane, 12 volt or 120 volt fridge? Is it a 3 way or 2 way setup?

I suspect your batteries are no good or your draw is greater then 10 amps. You need to track down your power usage for the house circuit. I doubt it's just the fridge drawing the 10 amps but I could be wrong.

Do you have a solenoid that also draws down while the house batteries are switched on? Try changing that over to a "Latching Relay" or a manual switch. That will take away that power draw.

Unless you have a way of making power your fridge will eventually run your batteries down. It should take longer then 4-6 hours if your batteries are good.

You might want to consider (a lot of) solar panels to recharge your batteries during the day if you can't run your generator or be plugged in. The problem with this is after the sun goes down you still have more then 4-6 hours of darkness.

Search for the extra draw. Find out what the fridge is drawing just by itself. Consider a more energy efficient fridge. Leave your fridge off and throw the circuit on for the house batteries - check power draw.


Frank Strong
1994 Regency 34ft
300 HP Cummins, 6 spd Allison
Spartan MM Chassis
 
Posts: 125 | Location: Walthall, MS/Ocoee, FL (Orlando area) | Member Since: 03-20-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Frank Strong
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Bill, I appreciate your detailed response and here are my answers as best I know:
1. There are two red cables coming off the two house batteries which are wired in parallel. One only has about .5 Amp draw. The other has the 10-12 Amp draw measured with a small digital meter.
2.I had to buy a new load test meter and followed directions to hold the load for 10 seconds and then checking the meter. Both batteries seemed to hold up well showing very little drop in voltage.
3.Both batteries are Wal Mart Marine rated at 500 cca. I don't know their age.
4.Since I bought the Barth, the batteries have been run down about 6-10 times and seem to rebound quickly.
5.The fridge is a Norcold 2-way unit set up for 110v and gas.
6.The fridge accounts for about 8 amps of the total, the remaining being caused by the solenoid, fire alarm, CO2 alarm, and auto gas shutoff. There may be others but I have not been able to isolate them.
7.The latching relay is a good idea that I will follow up on but it still does not account for most of the draw.
8.My unit does have one solar panel that seems to be working properly. I isolated it during the amp test.
I guess I never realized that the fridge was such a large draw. My old class C would run for several days before the house batteries went down. Maybe it was just the different fridge.
Thanks again for your help.


Frank Strong
1994 Regency 34ft
300 HP Cummins, 6 spd Allison
Spartan MM Chassis
 
Posts: 125 | Location: Walthall, MS/Ocoee, FL (Orlando area) | Member Since: 03-20-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Host" of Barthmobile.com
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Bill N.Y.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
There are two red cables coming off the two house batteries which are wired in parallel. One only has about .5 Amp draw. The other has the 10-12 Amp draw measured with a small digital meter.
Are these batteries isolated? Does only one get drawn down?

So, you have...
- two 12 volt 500 amp deep cycle batteries for the house.
- one 12 volt starting battery for the engine.

I'm thinking that both 12 volt batteries get run down. Your 8 amp draw to power the fridge isn't constant unless your always opening and closing it or it can't meet temp.

At what voltage does your fridge stop working? Do you have room for an additional battery? Have you considered replacing with higher amp batteries with a longer reserve capacity?

I can't speak for power consumption on a LPG fridge but if this sounds high or it's always running maybe it can't get cool enough. Does it always run?

Bill N.Y.
 
Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Frank Strong
posted Hide Post
Bill,
-There are two house batteries hooked in parallel.
-There are two chassis batteries also hooked in parallel.
-I don't know how constant the fridge draw is and didn't realize it varies with fride temp. I don't understand why the fridge needs so much current just to keep open a gas valve.
-The fridge quits a very low voltage but I have never measured it at the time of failure. Nothing will work after the fridge quits.
-Better batteries are always an option. I was just trying to understand the problem better before taking action.
-The fridge seems to keep plenty cool but it's been on 110V most to the time. We have never noticed it warming up when on gas.

Thanks again for your help.


Frank Strong
1994 Regency 34ft
300 HP Cummins, 6 spd Allison
Spartan MM Chassis
 
Posts: 125 | Location: Walthall, MS/Ocoee, FL (Orlando area) | Member Since: 03-20-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Host" of Barthmobile.com
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Bill N.Y.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
-I don't know how constant the fridge draw is and didn't realize it varies with fride temp.
I thought you said 8 amps. I assume that once it met it's temp it wouldn't keep working and wouldn't keep drawing power.
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
...I don't understand why the fridge needs so much current just to keep open a gas valve.
No, it shouldn't need that kind of amps to keep a valve open.
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
-The fridge quits a very low voltage but I have never measured it at the time of failure. Nothing will work after the fridge quits.
It sounds like your constant duty relay is opening up. Too low of voltage will do that.

I have a hard time believing it's just your fridge doing all of this at an 8 amp draw. Are you sure it's not a 3 way and it's now running on the 12v system? (No, I'm not trying to insult you.) I'm just trying to understand how there's an 8+ amp draw for that. Doesn't this thing have a thermo-coupler that holds the gas valve open?

Is the 12 volt gas valve an entire system gas valve and not limited to the fridge?

Try to trace back the circuits with a power draw and then go to each item in the system to see where the "power pig" is. Your going to have to trace it down and not assume it's one thing or another.

I'm far from an expert on this but the more info you throw out there the more likely someone else will pick up what the problem is.

My neighbors camper (28' 5th wheel) that I worked on had a similar problem and it was traced back to a gas & carbon monoxide sensor that shuts down the entire propane system if it thinks there's a problem. It didn't shut off from low voltage. Could this be your problem?
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Strong:
-There are two chassis batteries also hooked in parallel.
I didn't remember what kind of coach you have. This is another time when a good signature profile (or a better memory on my part, seeing that your first post said "Is this normal for Barth Regencys" Wink) would have helped.


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



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Posts: 5924 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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The propane sniffer in ANY RV will shut off the entire LPG system if it senses propane. It will also shut off on low voltage. IMHO, the fridge shuts off when the LPG valve shuts down due to low voltage. The fridge isn't the culprit, just a victim - maybe.

The fridge (2-way 120 VAC/LPG)cannot draw down the battery without 120 VAC, as it switches to propane, and the only 12V load is the burner igniter (operated constantly, it would take several weeks to deplete a battery) and the inside light. Unless there's an inverter providing 120 VAC from 12 VDC (as mine has). Something else is imposing the load.

Regarding batteries: A marine battery may or may not be a deep cycle (in this case, I suspect not). I inferred that one of the house batteries shows a .5A draw, the other, 8A...this is very odd, if they're wired in parallel - or do you mean that one bank of batteries (house or chassis) shows .5A, the other, 8A. If the former, then the low-draw battery is suspec (internal short).


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 7734 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Frank Strong
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I will try to clarify some of the old issues and then give you an update on the current draws.
The Norcold is definitely a 2-way model N841. A sticker on the inside of the door shows that the fridge should draw 3.0 amp on 110V and 1.2 amp on 12V which I assume is when the LP is on.
The house batteries are "Marine Starting" with no mention of "deep cycle". But remember that the load test was good.They are wired in parallel with two red take off cables -- just as mentioned earlier. One shows very little draw and the other shows the various readings reported earlier. None of the readings come from the chassis batteries.
The propane sniffer and the fridge run down at the same time -- indicating a source problem.
I retested the house battery current this morning just to confirm my earlier readings and now I am thoroughly confused. Here are the readings:
W/master sw off: 0.07 A
W/Master on : 1.6 A
W/O fridge: 1.06 A
W/O LP detector: 0.8 A
Now these reading seem pretty normal but I did notice that sometimes when I first connected the meter that it would show 12.0 A for about 2 seconds and then drop back to the 1.6 A. I could only make the 12 A reading show up about 3 times in about 12 tries. What could be causing this spike in draw? It looks as though something is sticking "on" sometimes --- the question is what??
Puzzled!!!!


Frank Strong
1994 Regency 34ft
300 HP Cummins, 6 spd Allison
Spartan MM Chassis
 
Posts: 125 | Location: Walthall, MS/Ocoee, FL (Orlando area) | Member Since: 03-20-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
posted Hide Post
The spike could be caused by the LPG solenoid valve opening. If there's little time between connections, it may not close, or there may be residual magnetism.

I suspect the batteries. It only takes one or two (sometimes more) complete discharges to cripple a non-deep cycle battery, despite their giving the illusion they can present 12 V.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 7734 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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