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Diesel Running Problem
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/11
Picture of Bruce & Kathleen
posted
I am having a problem with my 5.9 Cummins shutting off as I go down the road. It ran flawlessly for a 1200 mile round trip. But now it seems to have its own mind and just sometimes shuts off as I am slowing down or making a turn. Once it shuts down, it is very difficult to start. The only thing I see that seems odd is that the temp. gauge will freak out and peg to max, though it is only at 200 degrees. I don't know if that is what might be shutting it down or not. Anyway, if you have had any common issues or thoughts, I would like to know them. I am getting ready to go away for the Memorial Day weekend and sure would like to prevent a problem on the road......


9303 3855 33BS 1B
Bruce & Kathleen
1993 33' Front Entrance Breakaway
230HP Cummins 5.9, Allison 6 speed, Spartan Chassis, Nicely Optioned
 
Posts: 640 | Location: New Jersey | Member Since: 04-01-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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When you mean "temp gauge will freak out" do you mean that it suddenly jumps up and down? That probably means an electrical connection either at the back side of the gauge or the temp sender unit. I had that problem and I needed to re-seat the plug on the backside of the temperature gauge. I never experienced a shut down thou.

If it sweeps up to max then you may have a temperature surge, low coolant will cause this as air bubbles circulate thru the engines.

I did have some troubles with engine stumbling and shutting down awhile back and it was the idle setting was to low, when I went to restart I had to depress the throttle a bit to get it to run. I re-adjusted the idle to 800 RPM and all was well, was hard to get at the idle adjust bolt. I looked carefully at the idle stop and it had a very clear wear mark so probably over time the idle was getting lower and lower. The other symptom of to low of an idle setting is starting that requires a slight application of throttle. Mine had that from the first day I got it but then it progressed to where it would shut down when I would go from neutral to a gear or change from forward to reverse.

HTH


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2167 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Host" of Barthmobile.com
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
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Waiting for more info... Everything Ed has said is on track. Would you please define the "freak out" part.


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



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Posts: 7314 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/11
Picture of Bruce & Kathleen
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Sorry for the delay in getting back, but I have been tied up. Thanks Ed for the advice. I checked my coolant level and it is right to the top where it belongs. I guess I overstated about the temp. gauge. It was fine and at 140-160 degrees as it was warming up. Then all of the suddan it pegged itself all the way to the right as the diesel shut off. After it shut off, the gauge went to 0. When I went to start it, it went all the way to max again and would not start. Finally, I got the motor started again by depressing the gas and it went back to the orginal 140-160 degrees. As I moved and went around a corner, the motor shut off on me again but I cannot say that the temp. gauge maxed out again, as I was now in traffic and needed to pay more attention in getting it started and moving. Once started, it cut off again when I went around the next corner. Again, I'm in traffic so I was not paying attention to the temp. gauge. I was taking the Barth to the gas station to re-fuel for the weekend. I had about a 1/4 tank of fuel by what my gas gauge said. I had just run 1200 miles and know that the fuel gauge was were it was at now or below when I stopped for fuel on the trip, so I didn't think I was running out of gas. Got to the gas station and ran around their yard a few times with no problems. Filled it with fuel and took it for a ride with no problems. Took it out the other night for a ride to the mechanics with no problems. He thought that maybe the fuel was low enough that as I was going around corners it wasn't being picked up. His other thought was that maybe the new summer mix of diesel was possibly the culprit. I know that my engine idles at 600-700 RPM, so I might have to get that adjusted. I probably have to check the connections for the temp. gauge. I was trying to find out if the Sparten/Cummins set up might have a safety cut out for high temperture that might be initiated from the temp. gauge, therfore causing it to shut down. But, as I am writing this, all seems to be well. I have to hope for the best as I am leaving with my wife for Ocean City, Md. tomorrow after work, which is a 350+ mile round trip. I will check back tonight and tomorrow morning for any added posts to this.
Thanks again to those who respond!


9303 3855 33BS 1B
Bruce & Kathleen
1993 33' Front Entrance Breakaway
230HP Cummins 5.9, Allison 6 speed, Spartan Chassis, Nicely Optioned
 
Posts: 640 | Location: New Jersey | Member Since: 04-01-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glassnose Aficionado
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/09
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My coach isn't a diesel but I have some experience with them in big compressors and boats and other things, and these guys that know much more than me will back me when I say NEVER EVER run a diesel engine out of fuel, especially an older one.


79 Barth Classic
 
Posts: 3650 | Location: Venice Fl. | Member Since: 07-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 4/08
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As I stated earlier in another post, I am experiencing the same thing. After replacing the ignition switch and the turn signal indicater I still would experience shut downs. Finnally pull emergency flasher and cured the problem for a week and now it is up to it old tricks. I do know that it often happens when slowing down and turning on a turn signal. Seems to overload the electrical system somewhere. The remedy is to turn the key off and then back on and do a restart. But sometimes like in line for the ferry I had to turn it off and back on about a dozen times. I believe that turning on the key activates a relay somewhere that I need to find and replace. Sorry I don't have a solution yet, but I will.


'92 Barth Breakaway - 30'
5.9 Cummins (6B) 300+ HP
2000 Allison
Front entrance
 
Posts: 1029 | Location: Minneapolis/Yuma | Member Since: 08-17-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
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If your idle is 600-700 that is to low, It should be 700 minimum and preferably 750-850, I'll bet the engine is at the lower limit of the governor and stalls when a small load or reduced speed loads the engine and the governor can't maintain idle.

Let us know.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2167 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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On my '95 Gillig chassis, there is a compartment forward of the driver's side front wheel that contains a bunch of fuses, from 3 buss bars. One of the buss bars is fed by a relay that is picked by the ignition switch. That relay takes the 12V from the first buss bar and feeds it to the 2nd one. The instrument panel is one of the items fed from that second buss bar.

I had the instrument panel flash a few times while going down the road (but the engine never quit) and found that the ignition switch connection that picks the relay was loose right on the relay. Just tightened the nut and problem went away. Everything else that was fed from that buss bar were things not noticeable while just driving down the road, especially when the failure was momentary.

Your fuel cutoff solenoid may be wired into a setup similar to this and it may be losing its 12V to keep it picked when this occurs. That will definitely cut off the fuel flow.

As I've said before, I'm old, have been bounced around a lot and just may have a screw loose too.


Mike
1995 Country Coach Magna,
Cummins C8.3-300, Banks Stinger, Gillig Chassis,
PowerTech gen w/Kubota 3-cyl,
2005 Wrangler pusher,
"Diesels gather momentum not accelerate"
 
Posts: 144 | Location: Garden Grove, CA | Member Since: 06-09-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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It could also be a loose ground...sometimes the hot side is suspect, while the Ground Gremlin just chuckles to himself...


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

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Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 4/08
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Finally found my stalling problem. It was the constant duty solinoid in the in front of the left frount tire. Found a Napa and bought and installed a new one. All of the chassis 12vdc aux power runs thru this solinoid. This include the engine run/start solinoid.


'92 Barth Breakaway - 30'
5.9 Cummins (6B) 300+ HP
2000 Allison
Front entrance
 
Posts: 1029 | Location: Minneapolis/Yuma | Member Since: 08-17-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/11
Picture of Bruce & Kathleen
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Just returned from the first camping adventure in the recently aquired Barth. It was my wife's first trip. That was why I had the concerns of breaking down. Didn't want to start the RV experience with a let down. Well, the Breakaway performed flawlessly once again. No starting or stalling problems. I will have too investigate a possible problem in this "running" as it becomes more prevelent. It's like going to the doctor or a mechanic for a problem that seems to go away once you get there. But, I will take the suggestion of moving my idle RPM's up by 100-150. That would also help in the idling in heavy traffic. I did run into one problem, but I will start a new topic on that in this forum.


9303 3855 33BS 1B
Bruce & Kathleen
1993 33' Front Entrance Breakaway
230HP Cummins 5.9, Allison 6 speed, Spartan Chassis, Nicely Optioned
 
Posts: 640 | Location: New Jersey | Member Since: 04-01-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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First off, I don't have experience with the Cummins diesel but I do know a little about diesels in general.
If one stops running and it can be restarted, in other words you don't have a mechanical failure of some kind, the problem is almost always fuel related. It's the only way to stop a diesel engine, to starve it of fuel. It's pretty obvious, its getting air because it refires. There apparently is a fuel shutoff solenoid and possibly, from others experience, an "overheating" sensor, relay, circuit. Whatever triggers this engine shut down is stopping fuel from reaching the engine, once again that's the only way to shut the engine off. It's possible that these systems are all working properly and the engine still shuts off because the fuel flow is being obstructed by something else. Dirty fuel filters, contamination in the tank are two other possible sources of restriction that could obstruct the flow of fuel and especially like Ed said, with a low rpm at idle, the engine just can't keep spinning at such a low speed and stumbles and dies. Diesel tanks that have accumulated water are a breeding ground for all sorts of biological stuff to grow, if the tank is allowed to become nearly empty, that gook can be drawn down to the fuel pickup and clog and restrict the fuel. This is one reason not to let the diesel run out of fuel. Another reason is air. When the low fuel level sloshes around, it may momentarily allow a little air to be drawn into the fuel line. When this air reaches the injection pump, the engine perceives it as starvation of fuel and oomph, off. Fuel systems normally are set up to purge the air back to the tank where it no longer creates the starvation it does when it's on its way to the injection pump. So valves that shut off fuel or things that could block the fuel, or situations that could introduce air into the line that temporarily interupt what is supposed to be an uniterupted flow of fuel are all possibles. But ultimately, the only way an otherwise "healthy" diesel can stop running is starving for fuel. Yours sounds like its healthy having just travelled the miles you have so I suggest fuel starvation is where the problem is. Maybe this will help at least isolate the problem a little, or maybe I'm too simplistic since my only experience is with Mercedes diesels, but every time the engine has stopped on my cars, it has always involved fuel delivery in some way.
Hope that helps.


1983 Mercedes 300 SD Turbo Diesel...
...Rudolph Diesel ran his first one on peanut oil, I use soybean in mine.
Looking for a nice Breakaway.
 
Posts: 21 | Location: Scotts Valley CA | Member Since: 03-25-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gary, not sure if you are still monitoring this problem but I am having the same problem with my 91 28' Breakaway shutting down randomly. It does not happen very often but I have to pull over and restart. I am not sure what model Barth you have but am wondering if you have the Napa part number for the solenoid. Maybe I will replace it to see if it solves the problem.


1991 28' Breakaway
5.9L 6B5.9 Cummins, Allison
Spartan chassis
 
Posts: 17 | Location: Hilo HI | Member Since: 03-26-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 4/08
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Wasn't monitoring, but since you asked it moved to the top of the list.

Anyway the solinoid looks like a Ford starter solinoid but is constant duty. It has one control line and is internally grounded. They are available at almost any autoparts store. Just make sure it is constant duty with internal ground.


'92 Barth Breakaway - 30'
5.9 Cummins (6B) 300+ HP
2000 Allison
Front entrance
 
Posts: 1029 | Location: Minneapolis/Yuma | Member Since: 08-17-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 4/08
"5+ Years of Active Membership"
Picture of Bill G
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Bruce,

Richard Muise has a 94 Barth Breakaway with the 5.9 Cummins. It had the same problem regarding stalling. When he bought it, I went to Alabama with him to help him drive it back to MA. On the trip home, we had two stalls as you described, one in CT on I84 and one just around the corner from his house.

I know he fixed the problem, but cannot remember what he did. Contact him at (rpmuise@mac.com). He can detail the repair.

Bill G
 
Posts: 588 | Location: West Springfield, Massachusetts, United States | Member Since: 08-31-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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