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1972 22 ft., Brakes, Carb, and Misc.
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Picture of Spud
posted
After leaving my 1972 Barth parked for a couple months, I started it up, slid it into gear, and attempted to back out of the driveway. About two minutes later, the brakes let out a CRACK and then allowed me to pull out. Since then, and to a lesser extent prior to this moment, the brakes have been impossibly hard. On the way to a repair shop they failed altogether and I couldn't bring Barth to a stop even by standing on the pedal. This resulted in a near accident, tow, a three week wait, a $720.00 bill to replace about 2 ft. of 3/8" brake line, a very angry girlfriend, etc. After retrieving Barth, I took a long drive, maybe a full 100 yards from the auto repair shop. And the engine died. I wasn't able to get it restarted. My hunch is the mechanic played with the vacuum assist line and now there is a leak affecting the fuel/air ratio. However, the mechanic insists it's a "wide open" float valve. Thinking he might be right, and after pinching the fuel supply line, I've just about removed the carburetor. In the interest of time and given my apparent mechanical illiteracy, I opted to purchase a rebuilt one instead of rebuilding it myself. Initially, I made an effort to get to the float valve so I might wiggle it loose, but I failed, and I hope to verify the float valve's "wide open" status at a later point. Hopefully, I'll get the new carb in soon, and see if it fixes the problem.

In the mean time, I'm still having braking difficulties. Since the line was replaced, some braking capacity has been restored, and I'm tempted to say that the power assist is working, but minimally. I think there is still significant air in the lines. The mechanic suggested that a "bleeder" was broken. I take this to mean that a wheel cylinder at one of the rear drums is leaking and letting air in or a bleeder screw was seized and he was unable to properly bleed the line. Moreover, it seems the adjustment screws on both of the rear drums are stuck. Additionally, the pads and the shoes need replacing.

Prior to dropping it off at Satan's Automotive Inc., I thought I had resolved the braking problem. I found a vacuum leak and fixed it. As an aside, this is when I learned that Barth doesn't like it if I run the engine with the vacuum line disconnected entirely. In an effort to diagnose the vacuum problem, I opened a check valve near a mystery box that I think is a vacuum booster of some kind. It seemed to be working okay, and had vacuum whenever I depressed the little spring in it. Inside of it there was some fluid. I'm not sure if it was brake fluid or not. It was clear-ish and water-like, but not quite odorless. I didn't check the vacuum out of the second booster's check valve.

My question is, where should I go from here? Is there a rebuild kit available for these drums with the shoes, all the return springs, weebops, and widgets? I can't seem to find them. Are they the same as the ones for the P3X? The front is disks, but I'm not sure where to find the pads? Given my fluid situation in the vacuum line, should I go ahead a replace the brake master cylinder and if so, is it the same as the 1972 P3X?

As it concerns the carb, part of me thinks that my mechanic friend wasn't just turning the engine over as we watched the gas pour out, but he might have accidentally stepped on the accelerator. Anyway, and advice is appreciated.

On a less interesting note, does anyone know where I can find a roof vent that fits the factory refrigerator outlet? Also, I can't get the OEM water heater lit and I've broken the plastic knob that one uses to set it into the "pilot" position. Is there much hope for this heater? I'm considering an instant heater or solar heater.

Thanks so much for your help everyone!
 
Posts: 24 | Location: New York | Member Since: 03-10-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
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Sounds like a major brake job is in order...

On anything that old, I would replace wheel cylinders, lines, and flex hoses for sure. New cylinders will take care of the bleeder problems. New lines and hoses are insurance against scary failures at the wrong times. Master cylinder and booster probably need replacement as well. 45 years is a long time for o rings and rubber diaphragms.

My 86 has the Hydroboost power brake system that uses power steering pressure for boost. Also 4 wheel disc brakes. I replaced power steering pump, all lines and hoses, all calipers, pads and rear rotors. The master cylinder was replaced by the PO. I had no trouble getting the P3X parts.

see here for details and part numbers for front discs:
http://www.barthmobile.com/eve...1087061/m/5413963477

That said, the vacuum assist power brakes and the rear drums are another thing. The drums are hard to find and hardware kits, too. There were different drums on some applications. You may have different front discs as well on the smaller coach. GM used "RPO" numbers to identify the systems, see if you can find that info.

Not sure if we have your Data Tag. If not try to get us one for the Data Tag database. I have a friend who has worked as the parts guy at a GM dealer for 30 years. He is really good at finding old part numbers, etc. Give us your VIN number and I'll see if he can at least find out which system you have and what the OEM numbers were. I don't think they are available from GM but the numbers should help getting a cross reference for parts.

Good luck, brakes are so important they cannot be compromised.


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3231 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Spud
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Not sure if I should post this here or elsewhere. The data tag has already been posted on the site before.

 
Posts: 24 | Location: New York | Member Since: 03-10-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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quote:
I think there is still significant air in the lines. The mechanic suggested that a "bleeder" was broken. I take this to mean that a wheel cylinder at one of the rear drums is leaking and letting air in or a bleeder screw was seized and he was unable to properly bleed the line. Moreover, it seems the adjustment screws on both of the rear drums are stuck. Additionally, the pads and the shoes need replacing.


Using an E-Z Out could remove the broken bleeder. However, if it broke, that indicates it seized, and that's an indicator of corrosion and moisture. I'd replace both rear cylinders. The adjustment screws should be easy to locate.

quote:
On anything that old, I would replace wheel cylinders, lines, and flex hoses for sure. New cylinders will take care of the bleeder problems. New lines and hoses are insurance against scary failures at the wrong times. Master cylinder and booster probably need replacement as well. 45 years is a long time for o rings and rubber diaphragms.


As SteveVW said, brakes are too important to rely on 45 year old parts. To that, I'd add - easier to fix in your driveway than have Bubba Lee out in the sticks do it.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8201 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
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Thanks Spud. I will call my friend and see if he has any info on which brakes you should have. Hopefully he can help narrow the search. Thumbs Up


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3231 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Spud
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No no, thank you Steve and Rusty! And Steve, thanks for reaching out to your friend with the parts. This forum is consistently, awesomely, helpful.

I think I found some of the correct parts. I'll post them here later tonight.
 
Posts: 24 | Location: New York | Member Since: 03-10-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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An instant water heater is nice as it works just when you want water but if you plan on lots of shorter trips and driving you can easily get by with just the engine heating of the water heater. If you are gonna be long term in parks, an electric coil is also not a bad idea. Not sure what size your fridge vent would be but I replaced ours (it had disappeared over the winter) with one that I was able to make work from Amazon. Had to drill the holes but it fit just fine. Take some measurements and then look around, they are fairly standard in sizes.
 
Posts: 145 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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Reefer vent covers are pretty much generic.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8201 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/10
Picture of Reado
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Hi Spud...I have a 1973 - 19ft. I recently had it out for a test drive with a prospective buyer and of course, the front left brake seized! It turned out to be a collapsed flex hose. I did have the front and rear brakes done but didn't replace the flex hose... mistake! I decided to replace both front lines. It turned out they couldn't get "stock" hoses and I spent $94.00 Cn on each custom hose. So... I agree with Rusty...any rubber parts and all hoses in the braking system should be inspected carefully and replaced if there's the slightest doubt about their condition. Just curious...I didn't know they made a 22 footer in 1972...could it be a 19 like mine? Mine has a "19" number just to the left of the entrance door. Good luck with your Barth.
 
Posts: 63 | Location: Agassiz, BC Canada | Member Since: 07-19-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
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If you have a 350 cid engine like our '82 22-foot Euro you may have hydroboost as Rusty described. When you replace the flex lines get stainless steel braided ones from JEGS or similar vendors. One item not covered is that front disc and rear drum brakes always have a proportioning valve near the booster (look on the frame near the back of the engine) and it also can corrode. Don't mess with it just take it your favorite parts house and say "Chevy" and they can fit it. If you do have the hydroboost you can get Cardone to send it for a rebuild and then you get your exact same one back.


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1368 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/13
Picture of Dana
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quote:
Originally posted by Reado: Just curious...I didn't know they made a 22 footer in 1972...could it be a 19 like mine? Mine has a "19" number just to the left of the entrance door. Good luck with your Barth.


Reado
I also have a 22 foot, 1972. Funny when I saw the 22 on the outside by the door I thought it was a house number from being in a RV park. Until I thought about it. ROTFLMAO Spud also has the MC22C in the end of his VIN

Spuds vin looks to be 72081169MC22C mine is 72081169MC22C

Sorry Spud I didn't get any info on the brakes with the paper work I got with mine. They had been recently been re done and worked great. If you guys need parts that I may be able to live without ask. If they are not needed by me I would consider removing. 72CampBarth is now mobile but non motorized. I currently have the Grill, headlights(new), bezels and the aluminum pieces from around the headlights removed.


Dana & Lynn
1994 34ft Side Entry Aristocrat
Christened - DBarth
Spartan Chassis
6BTA 5.9L 230hp Cummins
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
15040S Eaton rear
Banks PowerPack
PacBrake
ProSine 2.5 Watt Inverter/Charger
245 watts solar panels
Blue Sky 3000i
#3895
1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
No motor, no tranny, no running water
Electric 110 and 12 volt intact and running
Still mobile as a toad with newer brakes, tires and lights
Original Fridgeking Air conditioner
 
Posts: 624 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Spud
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quote:
Mine has a "19" number just to the left of the entrance door. Good luck with your Barth.


Funny, mine has a 22!
 
Posts: 24 | Location: New York | Member Since: 03-10-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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    Forums    Tech Talk    1972 22 ft., Brakes, Carb, and Misc.

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