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    Forums    Tech Talk    How NOT to replace trim rivets... redoing IDIOT'S work
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How NOT to replace trim rivets... redoing IDIOT'S work
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Hello All,

As a disclaimer, I'm definitely not an expert in fastening with rivets, however, we do use a lot of them in our business & I have lodged at a Holiday Inn. That said, when we have difficulty in getting a standard pop rivet to grip the substrate we usually substitute a tri-fold "exploding" rivet in its place. We inventory two types (there may be more); low-profile flat-head (tri-fold) as well as the shaved-head (tri-fold) rivet. The low profile flat-head is similar to the standard rivet & the shaved-head which stands more proud of the surface is solid. If you're fortunate, the shaved-head mandrel will snap off near the head and can be trimmed VERY CAREFULLY with a small file and sandpaper. For the shaved-head style which looks solid when installed, unlike a pop rivet, they make a trimmer which does a quick and efficient job, however, the trimmer is rather expensive for occasional use.

Lastly, we buy many of our rivets from Albany County Fasteners. They have a rather comprehensive website which lists a plethora of size, shape, style, & material available. This source may be helpful for future needs.

Good Luck,

John
 
Posts: 33 | Location: Central Pa. | Member Since: 03-24-2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 8/19
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Goodsign,

The rivets you suggest sound impressive. The price is expensive. I did not notice the mandrel material. It needs to be aluminum also. Steel and aluminum do not co-exist together.
I found trifold with a better price, all aluminum. You can search member Tom and Julie to see the problems Tom had with steel mandrel rivets if I recall correctly.
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: Ohio | Member Since: 07-29-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Goodsign and Kevin, thank you for the information about those rivets. I will definitely be making use of your ideas.

Matt
 
Posts: 454 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/22
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It is interesting that we are seeing the realtime service life of the rivets as they finally fail on our coaches.

There have been numerous complaints about Barth's use of steel mandrel rivets. While they are initially stronger than the aluminum mandrel versions, there is inevitable corrosion of the mandrel which leads to the failure of the rivets, as we have seen. That said, they seem to last about 25 years.

I suspect they were probably cheaper and readily available when Barth was assembling the coaches. These rivets, and the square steel framing used on the basement frames, were both unfortunate choices for the long run. Had Barth used all aluminum, the coaches would last almost forever. OTOH, they do last 25 years.... hmm

As for the side belt rivets, it probably doesn't matter much what you use. (we now know steel mandrels last about 25 yrs, aluminum longer) Original rivets were not blind closed end either. Considering the side trim rivets are covered by the trim strip, I used standard cheap aluminum rivets. Under the trim, head style is not important either.

As we are seeing, particularly in the Monarch series, it is probably wise to inspect these rivets if you have not. Many are failing. Replace rivets before they leave you hanging!

Have Barth, will rivet Mechanic


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4831 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This has been a riveting thread!

Sorry

They trashed Steve’s trim. Mine they did well. But the $64000 dollar question is when did they make those repairs? I’ve had Midnight for almost 4 years. That makes my repairs at 20 years at the longest. I believe Morris would have mentioned if it was recent history. So less than 20 years some rivet work was done to mine. So many questions so few answers.


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1256 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hanson Rivets is another source. We had done some repair work on Old Blue before painting the upper white area just below the roof line. There was some seal removal & replacement of rivets around the brow corners that were made of fiberglass. That required 1/4" rivets & a 1/4" rivet tool. After doing our research we bought bulk rivets from Hanson.


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
 
Posts: 3705 | Location: madisonville tn usa | Member Since: 02-19-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Over 200 rivets into the replacements on Midnight. As long as I started this project I decided to do it right. I am using all aluminum closed end rivets. You all know I’m tight but I hate doing things twice. I looked back and see in the 3 Barth coaches I’ve worked on once I complete this project i will have used 800 of these rivets. I found the ones replaced earlier by someone were steel mandrel so I’m redoing those also. Both strips all the way around. Bottom both sides will be complete tomorrow. 1/3 of the upper is complete.

Should be better tomorrow 73 dew point is tough to take.

Aluminum Metal rivet covers are a pain to remove, straighten, clean, and replace. Looks good after.


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1256 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
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Over 300 in. All lower strip done. Top strip from the door all the way around the back is now complete. Just have the top rail from the back to the drivers window. 3 pieces…………

I know not to exciting but just trying to make the point this is better at home than on the road.

I redid what someone had already done. Glad I did. They had used the chinciist rivets I have ever seen Thumbs Down As I was working on it heads were popping off. The bay doors now open without binding. Thumbs Up On the straight seemingly solid runs at least 30% the heads are just held there with the caulk. Using the marine closed end rivets I don’t have to use caulk. Only place I am using is the joint or end to seal it off.


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1256 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dana:
Well as I was working on other items I noticed more of the bottom molding loosening.
After Bobs adventure http://www.barthmobile.com/eve...693934697#9693934697
I figured I better at least hit the bottom cheers Tooling Along ROTFLMAO Thumbs Up rows ASAP. Today happened to be that day.

After researching some riveters and the recommendations on that post (my joints are screaming at me a lot lately). In the following of “work smarter not harder!” I ordered a much cheaper cordless riveter. 39 rivets in and all I can say is wow wow wow wow confusion Thumbs Up GigaPower. $139.99. I will update after I get more done. Parts run for a new 11 drill bit. Broke dropped the dril head bang head bang head bang well that was an effort in futility. No metric drill bits locally. head bang

Less that 20% of the rivets were holding anything. Most I was able to pull out with my fingertips.

Big Grin Tooling Along ROTFLMAO confusion ROTFLMAO Thumbs Up in the immortal words from Gomer Pile “surprise surprise surprise”. Seemed like the next lower piece back was solid. I started pulling the trim and what did I find. Newer rivets with caulked heads. They each had a dab of red rtv to seal them.

They had been done correctly(well I used marine closed end rivets) I had seen some and imagined all. The top strips are all loose.

ROTFLMAO Thumbs Up Once Once a unexpected happy surprise!



Went back and read all the previous posts. This one made me laugh and cry.

Bought the GiraPow cordless riveter. Worked good right away. The 2nd time I went to use it bahhhhhhhhumbug. It would pull a rivet and then stop you would have to try and back out the mandrel by hitting the reverse multiple times. It would often freeze and you would have to reboot by pulling the battery.

Company items no longer available. Nothing. No item available. I assume its the auto function got corrupted.

I put them in manually. Crap but now it’s done. Well I need 3 more rivets. Ordered another 100 as those around the front and back continue to give out. Will probably replace all. I used all 400 I purchased earlier. I have some shouter ones put they didn’t hold well. They would POP as soon as you put pressure. Don’t think they expanded/gripped much.

Just have to put those last 3 in reinstall strip and fasten the hook for the awning they put thru the strip?

Wheeeeeeew Shields Up what a battle. There were at least 4 places they had been redone before. One place they had crammed so much caulk in I don’t know how they got the strip back in. One they didn’t recaulk so had open rivets. hmm who thought that was a good idea?

Done. Thanks to Steve and Bob for their problems which motivated me to complete!


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1256 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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    Forums    Tech Talk    How NOT to replace trim rivets... redoing IDIOT'S work

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