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Nose Does it Again
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/19
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Flywheelers looks like it will be loads of fun . Maybe it can be a "Barth & Birds at the Flywheelers" rally Smiler

One day I hope to make it to the Flywheelers antique tractor show in February. Unfortunately , that one coincides with the "Love Bird's on the Mississippi" rally.


Harold
Cat
Sam is 11 year old Miniature Schnauzer
Currently without a coach

KE5WCW
 
Posts: 277 | Location: Mooringsport,LA | Member Since: 05-30-2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/18
Picture of Duane88
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I have been looking for a reason Ole Nose throws those alternator belts and I believe I have found the problem.

When the AIR pumps were removed, the routing of the belt changed, putting it real close to the inlet nozzle of the water pump. I really never noticed how close it was until today. I can barely get my little finger in the gap between. I have replaced the water pump and radiator that also may have affected the gap.

I redid the belt so many times, and I guess I kept getting shorter ones, this in turn made the gap even smaller, I did this so it was easier to keep the belt tight, it squeaks like crazy when loose.

I am going to try to find an idler pulley to replace the AIR pump, this should reroute the belt, of course I need a longer belt, and I have like 3 spares of the existing version. I might have to fabricate a bracket for the pulley or I could install a non-functioning AIR pump, I have a couple from my old Winnebago. They do affect gas mileage so the pulley is first choice. There is considerable adjustment and a longer belt allows the alternator to be adjusted a bit and this will increase the gap spacing. I wonder if it would be enough to alleviate the problem. I would guess it was maybe ok before I got shorter belts. Just thinking out loud I guess, a sure fix would be the pulley.


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 1271 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/18
Picture of Duane88
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I am thinking about this Gilmer conversion kit for nose, it looks like a good kit with a cogged type belt and the crankshaft pulley has a groove for the power steering unit. Might solve my v-belt problem. Anyone have experience with this set up?



I went ahead and bought it, will let y'all know how it works in the spring...


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 1271 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you got rid of the Air EGR pump, you will need to change out the Intake Manifold. Also, depending whether you have the long style or Short Water Pump, routing will make a difference.

The Gilmer belt is a very bad idea, and not designed for long term running.

Also, an area to check is if the exhaust Manifold has a thermal coil for holding heat in the engine they rust and corrode closed.

For better running and gas mileage, you should look into a Holley Sniper fuel injection system, and it will self learn, and is tune-able for just about any timing, fuel, or idle control. Well worth investment.

There are kits for your v-belt system, and something you should look into. BB Chevy engines have tons of aftermarket fan belt systems.

My 2 cents...Mark
 
Posts: 29 | Location: Cincinnati | Member Since: 08-29-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Steve VW
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The problem Duane is having is V belt slippage. What has this to do with an exhaust heat riser being stuck?

The Holley system has nothng to do with V belts... (fuel injection is indeed superior for running and fuel mileage, though.)

EGR intake manifolds had a ported valve that allowed a small amount of oxygen poor exhaust gas to be mixed with the normal fuel air mixture in the intake manifold, to reduce peak combustion temperatures in a lame attempt to reduce NOx emissions. When the valve is closed the manifold operates normally, conducting air fuel mixture to each intake port.
Again, nothing to do with belt slippage.

Air pump is a belt driven device that injects air into the exhaust mainifold ports (not intake manifold), a lame attempt by manufacturers to allow post burn of exhaust gases downstream and dilute the exhaust gases to reduce unburned hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions. Nothing to do with belt slippage once it is removed, other than requiring a shorter belt with possible routing changes.

As you suggest, there are many BB Chevy belt systems on the aftermarket, for either short or long style pumps. Information on those that work well would be helpful.

I have not seen any info on the Gilmer system, perhaps a link concerning their problems would be helpful also.


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4197 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/19
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I still believe that alternator alignment would be the most likely cause for you to be having belt problems .

Are you still having voltage fluctuations ?


Harold
Cat
Sam is 11 year old Miniature Schnauzer
Currently without a coach

KE5WCW
 
Posts: 277 | Location: Mooringsport,LA | Member Since: 05-30-2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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Duane, what size alternator are you using? if it is larger than 60 amps an "A" size belt will not last to long. Also if the pulley on the alternator is larger for a "B" size belt, an "A" size belt will bottom out as it sinks into the V get hot and you can't tighten it enough.

You kinda gave me a clue when you say the belt squeals, that can be caused by belt to loose or load to heavy for the belt size.

just my 0.02


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2196 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Steve VW
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My 86 had a multigroove flat belt for water pump and alt that was able to stand the load. Still used v belts for the power steering. One belt direct from crank to PS, the other went around crank, water pump and PS pump. Sort of a hybrid system but better than all v belts.



9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4197 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/18
Picture of Duane88
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Geez lots of good thoughts, must be a sign of spring!!

Nose breaks the v-belt and they do not seem to be worn, just a chunk missing.

I used a straight edge to check the alignment and I think it is good. I tried the 2nd from the outside edge groove on the crankshaft for the water pump and alternator it was not good blew the belt even faster so back to the last groove.

The belts I have been using sit pretty high in the groove, they do not seem to be anywhere near the bottom, closer to the top edge. I had a 90 amp alternator installed and Steve suggested I go back to a 60 amp and I did.

The amp flow seems to be pretty stable now, but I have not had a real long trip, just maybe 20 miles and all held together.

Although I bought the Gilmer system I think I will just keep it in the package until I get a good run on Ole Nose. Might swap it out at the Minnesnowta GTG.

If I were a rich man I would install a fuel injection system in a heart beat. even a single mile per gallon savings would pay for it in a couple of years if the coach is used a lot.

I have removed the heat riser in the exhaust stem, and plugged the AIR manifold holes, the manifold is heated by cross over exhaust gas and there is a spacer/heat shield between the carburetor and manifold I guess that is standard. Headers would be nice though.

I guess for about 2 grand and a few days work I could change to fuel injection and headers, but this is an almost 40 old year piece of equipment and I am sure more will go wrong with it and I do not have that many years left of being able to be on the road a lot. Just would like it to be reliable..


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 1271 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/18
Picture of Duane88
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Mark, I am curious why you think the Gilmer is not good. Seems to have a wide belt with lots of meat, and the grooves should prevent any slippage. I guess it was designed for racing applications, high horsepower.


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 1271 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Doug Smiley
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quote:
Gilmer


https://www.speedwaymotors.com...rive-Belts,1804.html

Unlike v-belts and serpentine style belts, toothed belts such as HTD and Gilmer's don't need to be overly tight. The teeth on the belt do the work, not the tension. The rule of thumb to check belt tension is you should be able to grab the belt in the center between the two pulleys and turn it 90 degrees so the teeth are facing you. If you can turn it 180 so the teeth are pointing straight up at you, its too loose. If you can't turn it 90 degrees, its too tight.


https://www.holley.com/product...njection/sniper_efi/

Fuel System Kits ‌ Free shipping on orders $100 and up ... 650 HP Sniper EFI 4 Barrel Fuel Injection Conversion - Self-Tuning Kit + Handheld EFI Monitor - Shiny Finish. Part# 550-518. $1199.95 . 550-519. Holley Sniper EFI 4150 Super Sniper 650. 650 HP Sniper EFI 4 Barrel Fuel Injection Conversion - Self-Tuning Kit + Handheld EFI Monitor - Black Ceramic Finish. Part# 550-519. $1199.95. 550 ...


www.carlislebelts.com/news/ann...ps-from-timken-belts

Drive Engineer™ is like having a Timken belt engineer always at your side.. PowerMiser™ makes it easy to get a grip on energy savings by upgrading to Carlisle Belts by Timken. The Timken Company (NYSE: TKR; www.timken.com), a global leader in bearings and mechanical power transmission products, introduces two new mobile/desktop web applications developed to assist in the design and ...


_________________________

The 82 MCC {by Barth}
is not an rv--
it is a Motor Coach!!
www.amway.ca/dougsmiley

 
Posts: 2872 | Location: Nova Scotia | Member Since: 12-08-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/18
Picture of Duane88
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Nice info Doug you are a digger!!!

The Gilmer kit guy is only like 30 minutes from my house so I got the kit today. The belt seems to be sturdy about 1.5 inches wide and the toothed gears smooth and look like they will grip very well. Sure seems to be well constructed.



What the heck is wrong with PB it is working so nicely ROTFLMAO


25 Ft Glassnose, 2792, 1982
454 Engine
Plain Jane Interior
Original Paint
Picture by Kevin
 
Posts: 1271 | Location: Clinton Iowa | Member Since: 04-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
The wide gilmer belt are great for high rpm low duration events, and not for long duration use.

The reason for belt slippage is most likely due to incorrect angles (sharp angles) due to removing the air-pump...

If you want the best alternative, and most likely a superior belt drive, would be a serpentine kit for your motor. That is the direction I would go, but one that would use a factory water pump.

March Performance is one company that comes to mind. There are others, however.

On the issue of the airpump removal, some years has a hose from the airpump to the intake manifold...also, the reason I brought up the exhaust manifold heat bypass spring, is that I have seen them fail too many times.

thin tube headers would not be desirable for a motorhome, unless you pick up a thick walled shorty header. That would be a nice upgrade. Just not full length headers.

I brought up the Holley Sniper EFI, because that would be a great gas Motorhome upgrade. Carbs are just a thing of the past, and jetting a new carb is very time consuming, and just not worth it. Also, by getting rid of the EGR Air-pump, you will need to change the fuel/exhaust portion of the engine design.

If I had a Gas engine, I would go with a Sepentine belt for reliability sake.

Mark

PS: If you do decide to go with a Serpentine belt system, make sure you go with one that has a spring loaded Idler pulley.

If you want to keep your fuel/exhaust system intact, Put a new Air-pump back on they way it was from the factory. Then your belt problems will go away, since you will then retain the original belt/pulley geometry.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: Cincinnati | Member Since: 08-29-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/19
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I would think that either direction you go with it , belt alignment will be critical . Seems to me the v-belt would be the most forgiving if alignment was off a little.


Harold
Cat
Sam is 11 year old Miniature Schnauzer
Currently without a coach

KE5WCW
 
Posts: 277 | Location: Mooringsport,LA | Member Since: 05-30-2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/19
posted Hide Post
"The belts I have been using sit pretty high in the groove, they do not seem to be anywhere near the bottom, closer to the top edge. "

Have you tried belts that fit down in the groove that fit all the way to the bottom ?


Harold
Cat
Sam is 11 year old Miniature Schnauzer
Currently without a coach

KE5WCW
 
Posts: 277 | Location: Mooringsport,LA | Member Since: 05-30-2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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