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Broken Rivets
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/12
Picture of Nick Cagle
posted
I was up on the roof installing the final 3 new clearance lights today. While cleaning the area around the lights I noticed a couple of rivets that appeared to have come loose or that were not tight. I could press down on the rivet and turn it with my finger. Before I was about to drill it out and replace it, I took the paint scraper and put it under the rim to see if it would come out. The picture below shows what came out with NO trouble at all. I continued to check other rivets and found 14 that were broken off about 3/8 inch below the surface. These are the rivets that attach the top edge of the fiberglass cap to the top of the coach. If you have a fiberglass cap you might want to check yours. Needless to say, I drilled out and replaced all of the rivets attaching the top of the cap.

Picture of some of the broken rivets. Notice that they are all broken at about the same length.


Nick
 
Posts: 1732 | Location: Harlem, GA | Member Since: 09-17-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of BarthBluesmobile
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Elsewhere in these discussion boards, the phrase "galvanic corrosion" shows up. The aluminum rivets are connecting to square steel tubing. The nature of the rivit process induces stresses on the rivit which allows enhanced corrosion after a couple decades. I've seen rivets that look like that on my compartments below. I should go topside and investigate too.

On the bright side of things, all the rivets in to the aluminum framing of the body are good still.

Another bright point is that this also means that the Barth has lasted decades beyond which an SOB has been removed from service.

Matt


1987 Barth 27' P32 Chassis
Former State Police Command Post
Chevrolet 454
Weiand Manifold, Crane Cam, Gibson Exhaust
 
Posts: 524 | Location: Massachusetts | Member Since: 07-28-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
FKA: noble97monarch
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/12
Picture of Moonbeam-Express
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I would think stainless steel rivets would be more appropriate and will not be subject to the galvanic action.




Formerly: 1997 Barth Monarch
Now: 2000 BlueBird Wanderlodge 43' LXi Millennium Edition DD Series 60 500HP 3 stage Jake, Overbuilt bike lift with R1200GS BMW, followed by 2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited,
“I haven’t been everywhere, but it’s on my list.”
 
Posts: 2228 | Location: Laurel Park, NC | Member Since: 03-16-2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 4/08
Picture of Kris & Tina Jones
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I believe eloctrolosis would still take place if stainless were used and even though your rivet would last, perhaps the new sacraficial point would be the steel (or aluminum) cross member underneath. I suppose I would prefer the rivet be the sacraficial point if there is a choice. Any thoughts?
 
Posts: 486 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Member Since: 02-13-2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
First Month Member
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/13
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BarthBluesmobile:
The aluminum rivets are connecting to square steel tubing.


It's been a while since I did mine, but I don't think my front rivets went through the steel. I know for sure the rear ones didn't, as I replaced a bunch just a few years back. Plus, there is no steel back there.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: AZ Central Highlands | Member Since: 01-09-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/10
Picture of Bones
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I have at least one to replace and I have not checked on the roof yet.

Is this why they're call pop rivets?



Regal 25 built in 1989
1985 P-30 chassis
454 TH400
 
Posts: 212 | Location: Somewhere in the SW | Member Since: 03-06-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Old Man and No Barth
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Over the years I had my Barth I replaced at least 50 rivets that suffered galvanic corrosion, & I'm sure more were on their way out when I sold it. Every one of the bad rivets fastened aluminum to steel. None of them fastened aluminum-to-aluminum. I got to making a loose-rivet inspection every time I went to the coach.

Barth Bluesmobile makes a good point. There aren't many SOB's on the road today as old as the newest Barth. Add to this, pop rivets are cheap, & easy to replace. Just pull 'em out & pop in a new one. Odds are they'll outlast your ownership of the coach.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: Upper Left Corner | Member Since: 10-28-2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
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The rivets are failing because of two issues: the stress induced in the hollow aluminum shaft of the rivet and the galvanic corrosion caused by two dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte. In this case the Pop Rivets that Barth used are open ended, or hollow and that lets in water (the electrolyte!) and degrades the rivet. As I posted a few weeks ago I followed loose rivets in the engine rear area and found the underlying 2 x 2 steel completely rusted away. I have made new steel tube members and had them powder coated and then applied cold galvanizing as a sacrificial intermediary substance between the steel and aluminum skin. The last fix is to use closed end rivets which are solid and are waterproof. This keeps the water (electrolyte)out of the mating surfaces and they are somewhat thicker so the are stronger. What started as a few rivets became a replacement of the rear bottom structure of the engine compartment of my Regency. It is true that Barth is still better after this but using new materials like powder coating, cold galvanizing and sold end rivets is better than duct tape as an insulator (But I still believe as Red Green does - "Duct tape fixes everything!")


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1513 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/11
Picture of lenny and judy
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AT any time I work on the coach I find a loose rivet or 2 I have a bunch of them and have been using them.also when i can I remove any caulk and put in new.Most of them have been around the cap.
lenny


lenny and judy
32', Regency, Cummins 8.3L, Spartan Chassis, 1992
Tag# 9112 0158 32RS 1B
 
Posts: 790 | Location: Naples Florida,g.g. | Member Since: 02-06-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/12
Formally known as "Humbojb"
Picture of Jim and Tere
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quote:
after a couple decades.

"after a couple decades."
Love it!
Jim


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
 
Posts: 3696 | Location: madisonville tn usa | Member Since: 02-19-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 9/12
Picture of Carl Feren
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Hi Nick,

I found the same thing on our Breakaway and realized that it was because the aluminum rivets had steel mandrels which corroded the rivets at that 3/8" depth due to the electrolytic action of dissimilar metals. I replaced all of them with aluminum rivets with aluminum mandrels and then stuffed them with butyl rubber to make them weatherproof. I also put an additional rivet in between each of the existing rivets as they were 8" - 10" apart. So far it is working like a champ!
Carl Feren


30'- 1992 Breakaway on Spartan Chassis
5.9L Cummins 190
Banks Powerpack
Allison 4 spd - 542B
9206-3805-30BS-6B
7KW Kohler Propane Genset
 
Posts: 159 | Location: All of North America | Member Since: 02-16-2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
First Month Member
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 11/13
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl Feren:
I also put an additional rivet in between each of the existing rivets as they were 8" - 10" apart.


That is particularly good, as the additional rivets not only add extra strength, but are in virgin territory.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: AZ Central Highlands | Member Since: 01-09-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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