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Regal Radiator blues
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
posted
Sometimes I just can't win. head bang

I just finished replacing the front seal, installing the high volume water pump, power steering pump and lines, all by bending over the engine from above. Also installed new metal transmission cooler lines from trans to front cooler. Filled all systems. Engine fired right up. Toppped off fluids, everything seemed OK.

Then, what's this? A coolant leak from the bottom left corner of the radiator! confusion

History:

2 years ago, when I was doing engine work I removed the radiator. Decided I would get it rebuilt. It was not cheap, so I looked for a new replacement. It seems that the location of the filler neck (front right corner, pointing forward) is unique to the early P30 chassis. I was not able to find any radiator with the neck that way. All have the filler neck on the corner, pointing up. Unfortunately, the Barth has a full-surround radiator mount which covers the top of the corner. Here's the problem:





Since I could not find a ready replacement, the recore option become the top choice. I took the radiator to a reputable local shop. $500 later I had a recored radiator…

One year later, just in time for Milford, the bottom lower corner starts leaking at the seam! head bang

I took the radiator to another reputable shop. They resoldered the core and end caps. Another $85. Meanwhile, one year later, it is leaking out the same place…

Now mind you, it started leaking AFTER I spent hours bending over the engine working from the top. If I'd known about the radiator, I would have removed it first. The other work would have been easy to do from the front… head bang

So, what to do? I removed the radiator. I don't trust it. After 2 different shops were not able to get a permanet fix, I'm spooked.

Did a little searching. The core size, hose locations are the same as the 73-93 GM pickup, suburban, etc with big block engines. Only the filler neck is different.

I ordered one from Summit. Available with internal coolers, etc as needed. Came in 2 days, cheaper than a recore. (This one has only one cooler. I am not using any cooler in the radiator so I didn't care.)
here: http://www.summitracing.com/pa...sum-382018/overview/



Another plus: my old radiator had a 3 row core. (I'm not sure what the OEM one was, might have been 4 rows and the radiator guy may have put in a cheaper 3 row core… ) The new radiator has a 4 row core.



Also, the OEM radiator has 1 1/4 molded top hose going to a 1 1/2 engine neck. The new radiator has a stepped neck, allows either 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 end. I cut off the 1 1/4 neck, allows use of full length 1 1/2 hose with no bends.



High volume pump + 4 row core + larger hose should give much better cooling than before.

I had to cut the corner out of the radiator mounting to clear the new filler neck. Not much trouble actually.

The good news it that there is a possible replacement/upgrade for the coaches with P30 chassis.

Hope to finish the project tomorrow.


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3217 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Doorman
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Shouldn't have leaked for another 3 weeks, just before heading out for GTG. Sorry The 4 row should be a +. From the pics it appears the new one does not have as many fins per inch as old one. If you were not having problems with over heating before I see nothing but a positive with the 4 row. I replaced a 3 row with 4 row in the Class C. just before heading to last Chattanooga GTG. That was the shake down trip for Classie. Have not had any temp issues even pulling trailer.

Did you find where the leak on the old one was coming from, tank or tubes?


1986 31' Regal -1976 Class C
454/T400 P30 -350/T400 G30
twin cntr beds - 21' rear bath
 
Posts: 779 | Location: Dayton, Ohio | Member Since: 09-27-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
posted Hide Post
When I replaced the rad on my Ford 1T diesel van, the three row had better cooling specs than the OEM 4-row.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8200 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
posted Hide Post
If you need a radiator you might call Griffin Thermal Products (www.griffinrad.com) and with pictures or drawings they will make one to exactly fit. They make custom rads for us and we have never been disappointed. For example, we have them weld side mount tabs that fit our frames and relocate inlets and outlets because we also cannot reach a filler neck once installed.


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1368 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 5/11
Picture of crouch38
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I just had my radiator recored . The shop said my old rad was a 4 core & no 4 core replacements are avaliable . He also said the new 3 core replacement has much bigger tubes & will cool much better than the 4 core OEM . I haven't put it in yet (replacing engine), but hope i don't have problems after the $475 price tag.

Steve , Now you got me spooked too. confusion confusion Hopefully i don't have them problems with mine .

I hope the new radiator solves your problems .
Bob


Year:: 1986
Model:: Barth Regal
Length:: 25 ft
Engine:: New Chevy 454 HO
Chassis:: P-30
Data Tag Number:: 8606 3339 25FP2
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Wampum , Pa | Member Since: 02-12-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
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I finally got the new radiator back in the coach. I still have to zip tie the wiring, etc but it is mostly done.



I had to cut out the corner of the radiator mount to clear the filler neck. This left the side unsupported, so I installed an angle bracket between the firewall and the side.



The top of the radiator is still supported by the large strut rod that bolts to the right side of the frame below.



I now have a full 1 1/2 inch top hose with no bends. I put in some FatMat liner on that side.



One interesting note:

I cut the corner out of the mounting frame. When I reassembled the pieces to the lower mounting frame, the ends of the top and side pieces were about 1 inch out of alignment. If I forced them into alignment, it put force on the radiator. It appears that the frame was not flat (ie planar) but slightly twisted. The twist was not obvious when the 2 complete halves were connected. I think the previous failures may be related to the twisted radiator mounting frame. hmm

When I reinstalled I made sure the radiator was sitting passively without any force, then tightened the fasteners.

Hopefully this will last a long time. Tooling Along

Now to finish the insulation job on the doghouse covers… Mechanic


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3217 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of hemi354az (FMC #120)
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Last picture of message 2126:
Which way does the fan turn in that picture ? CW or CCW ? If it turns CW, is that a reverse rotation fan that looks like it will blow air TOWARD the radiator ? If it is CCW then is the fan on backwards ? (fan installed backwards happens often on FMCs)
Lou, FMC#120
 
Posts: 39 | Location: Shopsdale, Aridzona | Member Since: 09-07-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
posted Hide Post
The engine (and fan) turn clockwise when viewed from the front. The fan blows air to the rear as normal. (Even if the fan is installed backwards, the air flow direction is the same, the leading and trailing edges are transposed and the fan is less efficient but airflow direction would be the same.)

It is easily possible to install the fan backwards. In my case the trailing edges are easily identified since the trailing edge is curved and flexible. The picture is deceptive, as you noticed.

This one is better:



There is the old snaky upper rad hose, too.


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3217 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of hemi354az (FMC #120)
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Steve, you just included the "fan" photo (formed smooth Radiator hose)from your entry several days ago about changing the Power Steering pump. I was referring to the "fan" photo (corrugated radiator hose)from this latest entry about changing the Radiator. The two photos showing the fan are NOT the same. The rivets are on the leading edge of the blade. Well, you'll find out which way the fan blows when you start the engine. Sorry to bother you, Lou.
 
Posts: 39 | Location: Shopsdale, Aridzona | Member Since: 09-07-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
posted Hide Post
The fan was not changed since the first photo… notice the new fan clutch. Also notice the flexible trailing edge is facing the engine side in both photos… also the spoke the blade is riveted to is behind the blade in both cases...

I have already started the engine, it turns CW, the fan turns CW and blows air toward the engine as it should.


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3217 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of hemi354az (FMC #120)
posted Hide Post
Sorry Steve . . . an Optical Confusion on my part.
Lou
 
Posts: 39 | Location: Shopsdale, Aridzona | Member Since: 09-07-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
posted Hide Post
No problem. In all fairness, that is the best unintentional optical illusion photo I have ever taken. Looking at the one blade in the photo it is almost impossible to see the curved edge.

You have a good eye to spot that! Thanks for the heads up on the fan it never hurts to have some one watch your back. Thumbs Up


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3217 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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