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12V Alternator Power to Domestic Battery Power
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Pirate19
posted
Following an extended drive I shut down my '92 Breakaway and I no longer had 12V power for domestic use in my coach. A half hour later I had such 12V power in the coach - from the domestic batteries. I SUPPOSE a 12v battery power solenoid(normally closed - opened when alternator power is supplied)cooled down and closed to complete the battery circuit.

Does anyone have thoughts as to where the solenoid may be located? Or where my thoughts are wrong? Thanks.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
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Just found this:

http://www.barthmobile.com/eve...103911567#1103911567


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 03/08
"First Year of Inception" Membership Club
Picture of Eric Herrle
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On my 92 Breakaway the the single switch by the entrance door shuts the power off on the house side of things. People tend to push it by accident. The relay is inconveniently located on the passenger side frame rail near the transmission.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Kailua Kona, HI & E. Waterboro, ME | Member Since: 06-27-2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Pirate19
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Thanks Eric. I am familiar with the domestic 12V cut-off switch by the entrance door. The relay on the frame rail near the tranny I am not. I will search and update this post. Thanks much.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
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This relay is located as described. Might this be the relay - 3 posts, heavy gauge to one, light gauge to the other two. Thanks Eric.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B


 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
Picture of Dana
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And whoever decided that was a good location for a relay should be flogged? It is in the same/similar place on my Monarch.

One in the front electrical compartment. One in the rear electrical compartment and that one in that most inhospitable place. I believe mine in the Monarch is actually more inhospitable. That looks like the location of the one that was in my Aristocrat (DBarth)


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1267 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/22
Picture of Steve VW
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On my Monarch, there is a relay on both the front and rear electrical panel that switches on the chassis power with the the key switch, to energize the running systems when the key is on.

On the Monarch, the miserable relay locacted in the rear frame area is actually a relay for the starter circuit. When the key switch is turned to the start position, the frame relay is energized (assuming the trans is in Neutral). The relay provides power to the main starter solenoid which is piggyback on the top of the starter. The relay you show has wires which look small to be for starter solenoid load, so it may indeed be the chassis power relay? hmm

I am not sure exactly how similar the Breakaway wiring is to the Monarch. The coach power on my Monarch was wired through some relays in the engine compartment. They were on the right side firewall. I bypassed them some time ago so coach power is on all the time. They had been switched by a remote panel mounted near the entry steps. The switches near the steps were prone to accidental bumps. The relays were not reliable either.

Good luck chasing the electrons in your coach.

Just be glad these things weren't built in Europe with Lucas electrical compoments. confusion


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4885 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
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Great info for consideration. Thanks.

At this point my strategy is to clean-up the connections at the photo'd relay. Apparently, the relay temp. was a factor to the relay not returning to the "normal" position instantly when ignition shut off (when cooled one-half hour the relay worked properly, that being the domestic batteries providing power to 12v domestic circuits). I will note identification data and buy one for a back-up. Will update.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/22
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Here is the Spartan electrical diagram. I believe the frame relay is the one in the upper left corner of the diagram.

Everything on these diagrams is Spartan related, ie chassis and running gear.

Sadly, the Barth coach wiring, while good quality, is rarely documented well. Since you have a problem with the coach wiring, you may have to start with the coach battery set. Follow connections from there. There will be connections to the genset for starting, to the main 12v breaker panel, to your battery charger, etc and all coach loads begin there. If you do have a master disconnect it should be in these main wires. hmm

 
Posts: 4885 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
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Great. I will save for future reference. For the record my eyes are better before 6PM cheers . And I stunk at Pacman.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
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http://truckroadservice.com/ba...ARTAN_SCHEM_ORIG.pdf

Look at this link. Should be much easier to read.

This is in the documents on site in tech talk.


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1267 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Barth Junkie
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/22
Picture of Steve VW
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Thanks, Dana. I should have included a link in the post above. Thumbs Up


9708-M0037-37MM-01
"98" Monarch 37
Spartan MM, 6 spd Allison
Cummins 8.3 300 hp
 
Posts: 4885 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Pirate19
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Replacing the part pictured. Cole-Hersee relay #24037. Will let you know (in the Spring head bang) if it corrects the slow switching of the 12V power to the domestic batteries supply when ignition shut off.


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/22
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You may have trouble with that one. If you search I believe you will find it should be a continuous duty. Was that the numbers on the one you replaced? The last one I replaced was 24059-BP. That is a 4 wire solenoid. I like the dedicated ground wire. I make sure I have a good ground no matter where the solenoid is mounted.

3 wire number I have is 24106


Dana & Lynn
1997 38ft Monarch front entry
Spartan Mountain Master Chassis
Cummins 8.3 325hp
Allison MD-3060 6 speed
22.5 11R
Cummins Factory Exhaust Brake
8000 watt Quiet Diesel Generator
9608-M0022-38MI-4C
Christened Midnight

1972 22ft
Christened Camp Barth
 
Posts: 1267 | Location: Waseca, Minnesota | Member Since: 12-09-2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/21
Picture of Pirate19
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Yes, the numbers I cited were printed on the relay and my search indicated it appears to be the correct replacement. Bench tested the unit and it performed flawlessly. The relay does not have a dedicated ground post. If this relay is the cause of my symptom then presumably I had an ineffective ground - "I hear the Barth disciples".

The unit was designed to ground via two self-tapping mounting bolts to the frame. I wire wheeled the paint from the frame mounting position and the wires' terminals. I will install the new replacement and keep the old, removed relay as a back up. If the symptom persists then I'll be pleased with my routine maintenance.

I tried to post a pic. - UGH!


'92 Breakaway
Cummins 190hp, No Modifications
Allison AT542
Floor Plan 30-BS-11B
9205-3798-30BS11B
 
Posts: 366 | Location: USA | Member Since: 11-07-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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    Forums    Tech Talk    12V Alternator Power to Domestic Battery Power

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