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Starter went out at a rest stop
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Picture of benebob
posted
The starter is just spinning and not engaging the flywheel. It staeted acting funny at our forst stop. Didnt want to do anything when i wnet to reatart then did the aame thing again at dinner. Would start of i held the aux starter. Pulled in to a rest stop and now she just spins. Tried wacking it woth a hammer and nodda. Parked in for the noght but will go to autozone in the morning for a replacement. My question is on the 453 the 2 starter bolts on mine aren't tightening the starter. They reach the end of the threads and it is as if a couple washers are missing. They both have a lock washerbut again it stays movable. Started fine prior and no teeth seemed chewed up. Should i be getting washers and tightening the thing down or keep it loose. Hope to know your thoughts by 7 when they open.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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GM starters used to have to be aligned and shimmed (on newer engines, the bosses are machined with better precision). A good starter shop can align it correctly, and based on your description, the starter may be OK, just misaligned.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8200 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 5/11
Picture of crouch38
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The starter should be tight . If not the teeth on starter & flywheel WILL be chewed up .
Bob


Year:: 1986
Model:: Barth Regal
Length:: 25 ft
Engine:: New Chevy 454 HO
Chassis:: P-30
Data Tag Number:: 8606 3339 25FP2
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Wampum , Pa | Member Since: 02-12-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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I figured as much but they don't get toght the way it was on. I did try to use sone wrenches which tightened it fine but thwn oy would start to turn thej would stop and go to the iigh pitched motor turning free. Waitingnon aaa now. Mot versed on shiming starters.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
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If you need to replace that GM brick, try a new compact starter. The one on my 454 works great. Good discussion here:

http://www.barthmobile.com/eve...033959187#1033959187

Shimming is not too bad. Sounds like your sarter worked loose and the shims fell out. I was lucky and did not need to shim mine. Google "shimming a GM starter" several good videos. Mechanic

Have Barth, will travel Tooling Along


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3216 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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Getting looked at in chattanoga as I type. Hppefully they will solve it quickly. The shimming scared me. Yeah i am thinking the shims fell out and the starter drive broke. Tranny ryns pretty darn hot. Hope to still make it to pensevola bit might not make it to flordia if it isn't done early today.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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New starter is working just fine. I think the old one was draining the charging system a bit as she is running great. Lost the flasher relay as we got to new orleans and still has issues finding drive on the selector until it is wamrmed up. Thought i solved that when i found the one bushing missing but still just doesn't like 3rd. Getting about 8mpg including a bit of generator running. Off to Austin via the houston space center in the am
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 5/11
Picture of crouch38
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Bob
That's good news on the starter problems.
Hope the rest of your trip is problem free . cheers
Bob


Year:: 1986
Model:: Barth Regal
Length:: 25 ft
Engine:: New Chevy 454 HO
Chassis:: P-30
Data Tag Number:: 8606 3339 25FP2
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Wampum , Pa | Member Since: 02-12-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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Well we are now out in Cali, should hit the pacific tomorrow. Heat has been an issue. 6 days around 115. Today pushing 120+ thru death valley. I still am having some starting issues. Occassionally when you turn the key to start (all the lights come on of course but there is nothing, no click, no dimming of the lights, nothing. I thought it was a heat thing as it hadn't done it cold but in the Grand Canyon after changing the oil she did it with the engine dead cold. I did buy an ignition switch in vegas but am hoping to wait til we have a week off in Oregon to work on the issue. Have been filling up first thing in the morning then leaving her run if I need a second fill throughout the day. At least it looks like the heat is now behind us for a few day.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glassnose Aficionado
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/09
Picture of Danny Z
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Due to the extreme heat you've been running in I'd like to know what kind of engine cooling fan you have. I just have the clutch fan and I know I'd be overheating if I pushed it at all in those temps. I'd probably be OK if I kept it down to 50 or so but that makes for a long trip. Good luck and thanks for keeping us informed.


Dan & Suzy Z
'81 Euro 28 - Slide Show
454 Chevy


Venice, Florida
 
Posts: 3436 | Location: Venice Fl. | Member Since: 07-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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It has the standard engine driven fan but also there are two electric fans in front. One comes on for the ac the other turns darn slow imho to be of much use. I was planning on putting a couple bottles of water wetter in when I hit Texas but haven't seen the need. at 65mph or so it will slowly climb with the ac on up to about 2/3rds of the way up the "normal" range. I get nervous and shut the ac off at that point. Same goes for up hills a bit slower but rock steady if I stayed around 55-60. The rad was replaced 5 years ago, fluid was in it and looked okay so I've run with it. The only real heat related issue asside from the starter is the blasted ac will slip when you idle at these temps and after stopping for gas. PITA with my starting issues as my generator doesn't fire for whatever reason with the engine running so we've run quite a bit waiting for the belt to cool. (have adjusted it twice but am afraid to go too tight and do damage to bearings or throw a belt that I phyically can't replace.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good morning, BeneBob;

There are several possible problems here.

As mentioned, the starter may actually be OK. However, the somewhat "loose" starter mounting does indicate that the bolts did come loose, and the shim pack for that starter is gone. If you do not feel comfortable doing this, then perhaps a GM mechanic can be asked to help with selecting the correct shim pack for the starter. It should be done to insure the proper clearance for pinion engagement, and the proper tooth contact for the starter pinion.

I am a little concerned about the drive belt for the alternator. There is a fair probability that it is a wide serpentine belt with about 6 ribs. One problem with them is that if they do get loose and are allowed to squeal for a while, the ribs will glaze and will slip even more. The best cure for this is to buy a replacement belt and make sure that it is properly tensioned when it is installed new. Buying a spare alternator serpentine belt to carry with you and have available for someone else to help install can also save you a lot of waiting time.

Since you mentioned it, check the drive belt tension for the air conditioner compressor belt also.

The two ARA air conditioning condenser fans. Normally both of them should run at the same time. Look for a possible problem with the wiring or with the fan control relay. One way to check the fan is with a jumper wire from the battery plus terminal to the spade connector going to the fan motor on the one that is not turning. If it runs, there is a wiring or other circuit problem. It it does not run, then it may be time for a replacement fan on that side. Something else that many other GM P30 chassis owners have done is to add an auxiliary fan control switch and wiring to turn on the two fans while driving up hills or in a high temperature area. Yes, this does put a little more electrical load on the alternator while driving, but if you are driving during the day with the lights off, you should be OK. Something else that I have done is to add separate in-line fuses for the power going to each of the two electrical fans.

Another thing to do is to make sure that there are some sheet metal panels between the P30 frame rails to block the spaces where air can both escape down instead of going back and passing through the air conditioner condenser core and the engine radiator core. Make sure there is a panel down low in the space between the bottom of the air conditioner condenser and the bottom of the engine cooling radiator. That sheet metal in that location will prevent there being grass, wheat chaff, seeds, leaves, and other things being drawn up and coating the front of the engine radiator core if you are driving across a dry grass field. Anything drawn up through that slot will be held very firmly on the front of the engine cooling radiator.

You did say that the radiator does have a water/ethylene-glycol mixture in it, but you also said that it is five years old. At least one thing I would do is to get a bottle or two of rust inhibitor and water pump lubricant to add to the antifreeze liquid. The antifreeze itself is probably fine, but the rust inhibitors and water pump lubricant for helping the water pump shaft seal is a good idea. They will be consumed over time.

And, finally, you also mentioned going to Oregon a little later. Both Rusty and I might be curious if you are planning on being in Oregon on Monday morning, 2017 August 21?

Enjoy;

Ralph
Latté Land, Washington
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Latté Land, Washington  | Member Since: 12-03-2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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Sorry, been off the grid with places that say they have wifi but didn't.

It is just the ac belt that is squealing. No noise unless you turn the ac on. Just gave it a little more tightening yesterday and now it will just chirp for a split second if you turn it on at higher rpms. Nothing at low. belt isn't looking worn. I do have replacements along as well but am not capable (after a nasty hit by drunk driver on a bike incident of putting 'em on). No way I can lay on the engine to get 'em routed.

My fans are wired that one is on a thermostatic switch so it works if the engine is hot and the other comes on when the ac is on. They both may come on but I never looked at it with a cold engine.

The coolant has gotten a few refills in the overflow since I had it (and a new overflow tank as the one on it was cracked. Not getting an rust or rust colored coolant in it so I'm not to concerned about the rust inhibitors being shot. Plan to replace when I get home in the winterization. Just had other things to do.

Have about 6500 miles on it since the 10th of June. Running fine, I do need to replace the ignition switch as it doesn't crank at times and I'm pretty sure that is the issue. Did it today and I was all set to replace it when we got settled but seems the "chrome nut" that holds the switch and tumbler to the dash turns for a while then stops completely. Guessing there is a clip or something keeping it from unscrewing completely and I am hoping to wait til I have a week off in Oregon next week if I have to take the whole intrument panel off the dash. Was hoping I could just take the "nut" off and then slide the switch down below and out. If anyone knows of how to get the nut off let me know. I think I tried doing it with the key in all the positions but maybe there is a gm secret to it.

No plan to be back in PA the first of August so won't be around the west. Was kinda hoping to see some barth folks but seems most gatherings are in the fall and spring, far away from where we are gonna be.

Only other issues are I now have both the front airbags slowly leaking. Have to refill every couple of hours to keep 'em around 40psi. Was thinking since I have to replace 'em anyways of shooting some tire stop leak in there but afraid that will gum up the lines going to 'em.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 7/17
Picture of Steve VW
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I think you have to remove the lock cylinder to get the switch out. The bezel nut will back off then hits the cylinder.

Look carefully at your switch. There should be a small hole in the cylinder face next to the key slot. This is where you poke in a paper clip to relase the cylinder. Only trick is you have to be in the "on" position. Use the key to turn switch to on position. Poke the wire in the hole. wiggle a bit, and cylinder should come out key and all. Leave the key in the cylinder until you reinstall it. (You may want to disconnect the battery since the ingition stays on until you replace the cylinder and turn it off)

Now you can remove the switch.

The "switch" and "lock cylinder" are separate parts. Allows you to replace just the switch and not have to change keys as well.

Front bags are not too bad to change. Jack up coach to extend the spring. I deflated mine, cut into pieces with hacksaw, pull out the side and the bottom hole. Deflate the new bag, roll up tightly. Use five or six hose clamps to compress the bag and work it up through the hole, removing clamps one at a time as the bag goes through. (A screw gun will speed up clamp work.) Worked great for me.

6500 miles, you are the man! It seems besides me there weren't too many gassers doing long runs. I did over 40,000 in five years in mine. Enjoyed it greatly. Bravo.

good luck, Bob


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3216 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of benebob
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Well I figured that would be the case that the dash would need to come out but was hoping I could do it without. So I have the dash out now, took the wire harness off so no need to disconnect the battery but I can't get it off. Of course I'm lacking a paper clip. Is a fork too big? No matter where I put the ignition, off on or lock I can't seem to see anything but a little flat metal piece in there. Is that what I push or is there something small to the ignition switch side.

Of course I'm starting to think that isn't the issue. Seems a PO was a big fan of those press on wire connectors and there are a couple of them on there. I put the new switch on and I get a bunch of flickering and no start some of the time. If I play with the wires I can get it to stop Does anyone know where I can find a decent wiring harness diagram for an 86 p30. Seems I'm coming up blank via my searches. Of course I decided to do it at 10pm as well.
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Lancaster, PA | Member Since: 09-06-2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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