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Engine Question: Cat v. Cummins
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Bill N.Y.
posted
The question, by new member "barth anyone?", was removed from a 2 year old posting in the sold forum.

**Unbelievable** "The Gilmore Coach" 1988 40 foot exquisite remodel

It has been placed here to start a new thread and to make this topic timely.

This question should stand on it's own with proper links.
quote:
from the Barths For Sale Forum:
This location is a holding area of coaches that have sold. It is to be used as an archive area only. New discussions will not be permitted in this area. Most features have been turned off.
Bill N.Y.
 
Posts: 7317 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Moved Reply:

The preceeding bit of news says the cat engine had 70,000 miles at the time of rebuild. In looking at ads for 1980s Bluebirds I was surprised how many noted their 3208 or 3208ta cat engines had been replaced. One first owner said he'd replaced his at only 7,000 miles. Calling cat dealers indicated not even they were impressed with 1980s cats. This led me to gravitate towards detroit diesel Bluebirds in the later 80s. (There didn't seem to be as great incidence of citing Detroit rebuilds. I don't know if that's a function of fewer Detroits or fewer problems.) At least the Detroits can be rebuilt rather than replaced. Anyway, newer Bluebirds have cummins, and I'm wondering if that's because cummins presents fewer problems. I'd sure like to hear about incidence of cummins problems. Searching for cummins on this site seems to lead to virtually no complaints. My intent is to switch to vege, which entails a little extra investment upfront, which I'm trying to avoid blowing on account of a motor destined to fail. Any horror stories regarding cummins would be much appreciated, as a lack of such would tend to steer me towards cummins.
 
Posts: 15 | Location: az | Member Since: 10-16-2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Gunner
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"Any horror stories regarding cummins would be much appreciated, as a lack of such would tend to steer me towards cummins."

11 years (although only 60,000 miles) and absolutely no horror or even minor engine troubles. Replaced hoses & belt myself, had the air governor replaced this year. I love it, but 11 years may be too early to tell.


"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood
 
Posts: 573 | Location: Republic of Texas | Member Since: 12-31-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/12
Picture of Don in Niagara
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We got the Barth with 30k miles on it from new, a year and a half ago. The p.o. owned it for 9 years previous to us and put 6k miles on it in that time. We put about 8k on it in the last year what with spending the winter in Texas, Phoenix and Quartzsite. It used about 4 quarts of oil on that run and has been completely trouble free.
The biggest expense engine wise, (besides fue1!) was a full lube & filter service at Massey's Cummins Service in Phoenix before the trip home.
The one time I did a mileage check it did about 9 miles to the US gallon towing our Chev Tracker 4 door. That was in pretty hilly 2 lane country in northern Ontario when we first got her. We cruise around 65-68 mph @ 2000-2100 rpms.
Can't wait to get outta here after Christmas!
Don


1990 Regency 34'
Cummins 6CTA 8.3 240hp
Spartan Chassis,
4 speed Allison MT643
 
Posts: 754 | Location: Niagara Falls, Canada | Member Since: 11-09-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of beeoh
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have the almost indestructable Cat 3116 in our 94 Breakaway with just over 60,000 miles. If I used it for an 8000 mile trip it might use 1 litre of engine oil, not 4. We cruise at 60mph @ 1600rpm and average 10mpg with a sidekick toad. Parts when needed are readily available and priced resonable. This engine with the 5 speed allison will definitely outlive me.


Bob and Jan Orr
Canadian Barth owners
94 30ft. Breakaway/3116 Cat/ Allison 5 speed/ Gillig
 
Posts: 218 | Location: Qualicum Beach,Vancouver Island | Member Since: 06-20-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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I was an oil peddler (Shell Industrial-Commercial) when the 3208 (NA) first arrived on the scene, followed by the T and TA. In the linehaul tractors my customers had (IIRC, most switched from the 6-71, and a few from Cummins' pathetic 955, and a few from the Cummins 220 and 250). They loved 'em - oil consumption dropped from 300 mi./qt. to 1000+ mi./qt. Fuel economy, especially in the TA, was much better than the 6-71s.

The 3208 has been poo-pooed because it can't be overhauled in situ, but frankly I'm not so sure I'd want mechanics traipsing through the M/H for an in-place overhaul.

I don't have any idea why a lot of the 3208s in Bluebirds had to be rebuilt/replaced, but the -71 and -92 series DDs were considered 300K engines compared to the Cats and Cummins, more like 750-1000K miles. I'm not familiar at all with the DD Series 60.

That said, the Cat 31xx and C-series, and the Cummins 8.3L and ISx-series, are about as bulletproof as engines get. beeoh beat me to the punch on his Breakaway - I dawdled, and he got it - and the main draw for me was the 3116 Cat.

Cat and Cummins always beat DD on fuel economy (again, I don't know about the Series 60).


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/12
Picture of Don in Niagara
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Rusty
The 8.3 Cummins and Allison 4 speed in our Barth is mounted on a roller bed that is part of the Spartan chassis and can be rolled out thru the back doors if it ever needed to be.
No need to do anything major from inside the coach.
Don
quote:
Originally posted by Rusty:

The 3208 has been poo-pooed because it can't be overhauled in situ, but frankly I'm not so sure I'd want mechanics traipsing through the M/H for an in-place overhaul.


1990 Regency 34'
Cummins 6CTA 8.3 240hp
Spartan Chassis,
4 speed Allison MT643
 
Posts: 754 | Location: Niagara Falls, Canada | Member Since: 11-09-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well I can add a bit of history about the early 1980's cat 3208. Had one in the bobtail at work. Drove it about 65000 miles over 15 months. Got stopped by the highway patrol well over 10 times for excessive smoke ( blew 9 - 10 on the Ringleman scorecard ). Seems the EGR valve would close, pumping fuel into the engine at the same time. Cat did a recall in the EGR valve with one that you could, illegaly disconnect, but it did not smoke anymore. Sadly, the engine had to be replaced at 85k miles, the tops of the pistons were burned thru.
 
Posts: 26 | Location: Moreno Valley, Ca. | Member Since: 04-11-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
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quote:
Originally posted by Don in Niagara:
The 8.3 Cummins and Allison 4 speed in our Barth is mounted on a roller bed that is part of the Spartan chassis and can be rolled out thru the back doors if it ever needed to be.
No need to do anything major from inside the coach.


Boy, I sure wish Mine had a roller bed! I have to change the rear engine main seal this winter, not looking forward to that! The oil leakage now is getting to the point where it is laying down a real mess when I stop! I have put a piece of PVC pipe to the rear bumper so that I can run back and hang a cup under so I don't have to clean up a huge spot!

I also have a oil leak from the injector pump throttle shaft and the injector pump is very hard to work on or get to.

Up to this point, I don't use ANY oil between oil changes (5000 mile intervals).


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2217 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 03/10
Picture of sky
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Here is an article I found on the net that was interesting.
sky

Cummins
And performance tidbits.

Cummins Performcan


1990 Barth Regency
32RDGB1 Wide Body
3208 Cat 250 HP
Gillig Chassis
Center aisle
 
Posts: 513 | Location: Murphy, NC | Member Since: 03-01-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here is another article on the cat 3208T.

Cat 3208T

Then clik on Harveys column,
Then click on cat 3208

sky


1990 Barth Regency
32RDGB1 Wide Body
3208 Cat 250 HP
Gillig Chassis
Center aisle
 
Posts: 513 | Location: Murphy, NC | Member Since: 03-01-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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quote:
Originally posted by Don in Niagara:
Rusty
The 8.3 Cummins and Allison 4 speed in our Barth is mounted on a roller bed that is part of the Spartan chassis and can be rolled out thru the back doors if it ever needed to be.
No need to do anything major from inside the coach.
Don


I've seen the feature on a few Barths - never on a Breakaway, nor on a 3208-powered Barth. Tom Loughney's Monarch has the feature. It may be peculiar to the Cummins 8.3L, which Tom also has.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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'I've seen the feature on a few Barths - never on a Breakaway, nor on a 3208-powered Barth. Tom Loughney's Monarch has the feature. It may be peculiar to the Cummins 8.3L, which Tom also has."
Probably more a feature of the Spartan Mountain Master chassis, which I share. A GREAT idea; with the double rear louvered doors it will roll right out.


"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood
 
Posts: 573 | Location: Republic of Texas | Member Since: 12-31-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
posted Hide Post
From what I know, the roll-out feature is only on side radiator installations.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/12
Picture of Don in Niagara
posted Hide Post
Or front rad like ours.


1990 Regency 34'
Cummins 6CTA 8.3 240hp
Spartan Chassis,
4 speed Allison MT643
 
Posts: 754 | Location: Niagara Falls, Canada | Member Since: 11-09-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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    Forums    Tech Talk    Engine Question: Cat v. Cummins

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