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It Ain't Always What You Think It Is!

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01-26-2010, 03:03 PM
Shadow man
It Ain't Always What You Think It Is!
Bill H. When i was first starting out running equipment, some of the places i worked still had engines with what we called pony motors that ran on gas. Fire up the pony, then engage it with the diesel engine to get it to fire up. I even ran a few things that you had to use a hand crank like a model t used to fire up the engine. Lots of fun and many tries on days when the weather was freezing.
01-26-2010, 07:29 PM
Rusty
quote:
I have had some vehicles with steering systems that would de-aerate themselves when the steering was turned lock to lock a few times. I think that opened the overpressure valve and increased flow back to the reservoir, which made the aeration dissipate.


The reservoir is almost the high point of the system (the Hydroboost is); however, return goes to the reservoir, so entrained air can eventually escape.

Anyway, I got fooled by the amount of air entrained (there has to be at least a couple of quarts of ATF in the system), which really expanded. I also learned the lower mark on the dipstick can't be trusted.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
01-27-2010, 12:57 AM
Creepy Cawler
In the 50-60's my father was in the coal striping business and we had Cat diesels with pony motors.Started on gas and used the pony to turn over the diesel mtr. Kicked like crazy if you didn't hold the crank on the pony mtr right,many arm broken. Also had a Waukesha Hasselman motor in a big dragline that had sparkplugs. Had a quart gas tank that you pumped a couple times and then hit the starter. when it started you pumped more gas then switched it to diesel. Funny thing
was if a sparkplug foiled the diesel motor would miss even though you were on diesel 6cly and 6
4inch exaust straight pipes out the top of machine
1200.rpm
01-27-2010, 08:41 AM
Jim and Tere
The moral of Bill's story is?
Watch out for speeding hotdogs in Newburgh?


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
01-27-2010, 09:55 AM
Bill N.Y.
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
The moral of Bill's story is?
1) There is no such thing as a diesel carburetor... Eeker
2) Never-ever pour a little diesel down your air cleaner. Thumbs Down

Usually the worse we see is a burnt out starter or getting towed out of an intersection when you run out of fuel. This guy totaled a truck sitting still! Stupidity comes in all forms!


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



Quick Link: Members Only Link To Send Me A Private Message
01-27-2010, 11:16 AM
bill h
The owner of that truck learned two expensive lessons:

1. Be careful who you hire.

2. Train your employees before letting them handle expensive equipment.

I can also feel sorry for the guy. He was clearly trying very hard to do the right thing. Or, at least what he thought was the right thing. We can second guess him and say he shoulda called for help, but perhaps his training did not emphasize that, either. I have seen people lose their jobs at the airline because of lack of (or poor) training.

Having said all that, the incident would make a hilarious YouTube video.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
01-27-2010, 11:38 AM
Bill N.Y.
quote:
Originally posted by bill h:
He was clearly trying very hard to do the right thing. Or, at least what he thought was the right thing.
One of my sayings is... "You don't know enough to know, that you don't know... you know?" hmm

He only knew enough to be a danger to himself and those around him. Running out of fuel is a lot more forgiving on the ground than in the air.

In a lot of companies, running out of fuel is considered driver abuse and it is usually written up as a chargeable accident.

Some companies request that I send in 2 invoices. One with the fuel charges and the other one with the labor. Usually this is an indication that the company will be paying us for the fuel whereas the driver has just had his pay docked for the other invoice as a cash advance against his pay. Frowner

Here is a comment from a Moderator at a trucking board who works for UPS.
quote:
We are going to be charged with an accident.
If we run out of fuel,and have to have someone bring us enough to get going thats going on our records as a chargeable.
This is the norm. Running out of diesel, in a big rig, is an expensive proposition and could cost you your life.


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



Quick Link: Members Only Link To Send Me A Private Message
01-29-2010, 07:32 AM
billyt53
quote:
Originally posted by lenny and judy:
still don't know where shower water goes? lenny


I find it strange that the National Parks and most State Parks DO NOT ALLOW you to dump grey water on the ground....Fine....Then Why do tenters get to walk to the hose bib in Grand Canyon National Park, wash their dishes, brush theor teeth and just dump the water on the ground?? What is the difference???


Billy & Helen Thibodeaux
Owners of Billy Thibodeaux's Premiere RV, Inc. Scott, LA 70583 I-10 Exit 97
The Farm is near Duson, LA I-10 Exit 92 then N 1 mile on right
Three Full 50 Amp RV Hookups !
www.billyt.com
Data Tag: 9404-3908-36XI-2C
1994 Sovereign 36' Widebody on Spartan IC Chassis.
Powered by 8.3CTA 300 Cummins, 12 BTDC Timing, Borg Warner SV366 Turbo, K&N Motorhome Air Filter, 4" Resonator i.l.o. muffler, BD Exhaust Brake, Fleetgard "Enviroclean" CCV System (No more oil on the Toad)
Mobileye Forward Collision Avoidance/Lane Departure Warning System
MotoSAT HD Stationary Satellite, TracStar SV360 In-Motion Satellite, DirecTV HD
Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Radio Labs WiFi Range Extender
Bose Lifestyle V25 Home Theater
LG 32" 16x9 HD LED Living Room
Nexus 21 TV Lift
Samsung 32" HD SmarTV built into Bedroom Wall
Onan 8,000 Quiet Diesel Genset, 500 Ahr Lifeline AGM Battery Bank, 320 Watt Solar Array, Magnum MS2812 Pure Sine Wave Inverter
Toad: 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel M&G Car Brake
01-29-2010, 11:54 AM
bill h
quote:
Originally posted by billyt53:


I find it strange that the National Parks and most State Parks DO NOT ALLOW you to dump grey water on the ground....Fine....Then Why do tenters get to walk to the hose bib in Grand Canyon National Park, wash their dishes, brush theor teeth and just dump the water on the ground?? What is the difference???


It all depends on how you look at it.

1. There is no difference. Dishwater is dishwater. Shower water is shower water.

2. There is a difference. Tenters, not having running water, have less gray water to defile the wilderness.

3. Tenters are politically correct, and are usually vegan tree-huggers and belong to the Sierra Club, an organization of great political influence.

4. Tenters are terrible, despicable people because they turn the area around every water faucet into a fetid, festering swamp replete with flies, mosquito larvae and crockingators. In addition, the insects and rodents attracted to the water draw the bark scorpion and rattlesnakes, which, respectively, feed on them. If you ever see a Sierra Clubber wearing the Gokey Botte Sauvage, (instead of Birkenstocks), that means he/she has had an encounter with one or the other.

5. Rvers are less terrible than tenters because they let their gray water drip as it is produced, and the soil absorbs it instantly, with no puddle or swamp formed. A really decent RVer uses a phosphate-free soap like Dr. Bronners (which also requires very little water) and has a little screen filter in his sink drain or a panty hose leg tied over the hose outlet to avoid food particles that attract flies.

6. Rvers are terrible. They wait until they are ready to leave, and dump their entire gray tank, leaving all the evil festering fermented contents in one small lake.

For my own part, I am a Sierra Club member and pitch a small pop tent near my Barth. If a ranger catches me flinging our dishwater into a wide swath, I just tell him "I'm the guy in the tent".
Smiler

Both Susan and I have a long-time backpacking and tenting background, so we are incredibly conserving of water. For example, we are into day 13 on our 49 gallon black tank, and it is not even half-full yet.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
01-29-2010, 08:41 PM
Rusty
My latest guess is that the P/S pump is indeed bad. Air keeps getting entrained. I made it home without incident, by using a bit of trickery: Filled the reservoir, started the engine, then added more fluid. Still get the foamy overflow when the engine stops, but on the ride home, brakes and steering acted normal.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
01-29-2010, 08:57 PM
Patch1st
Good thing you've got a "Brand New" spare....
I hope that will cure it for you...


Click for Saint Clair Shores, Michigan Forecast


Patch1st
35' Regency
1985
MCC Chassis
8.2 Detroit Diesel
"Partly Cloudy"
01-29-2010, 09:54 PM
Bill N.Y.
quote:
Originally posted by Rusty:
My latest guess is that the P/S pump is indeed bad.
I had one truck where a previous mechanic had installed the wrong P/S filter. It was fine until the filter cracked at the top. Once the crack, which was above the fluid level, was there it started to suck in a little air. His filter, like most P/S filters was on the suction side inside of the reservoir.

I've seen suction side filters collapse. Now you have one concentrated area where it is allowing the oil to go in instead of a 360 degree opening. This concentrated suction area has turned the oil into a funnel cone... sort of like water going down a sink drain taking in a little air in the form of a rotating funnel cone.

Another issue I've seen, more than once, has been the oil fill stick. The stick (if it's an older design) sometimes has a reverse cone shape attached to the top of the cap. If the cone slips off the dipstick that is attached to the cap and falls in, an airpocket develops and the foam starts to push out of the cap and makes steering harder.

The oil dipstick cap will look normal, and you'll swear that this isn't it, but when you removing the P/S pump to replace it, you'll soon discover that the cone is hiding inside of the pump.

How is the suction side hose? A slight crack, like in a soda straw, doesn't show up until a suction is present and you'll never see a leak because fluid is thicker than air. This means that a suction side hose can suck in air well before it'll (if ever) show up as a fluid leak.

Once you get foam going, it is hard to stop and it will eventually cavitate the pump.


˙ʎ˙u ןןıq- „ǝןƃuɐ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ ɯoɹɟ pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ʞooן ɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ sı ǝɟıן oʇ ʇǝɹɔǝs ǝɥʇ„

Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
8908 0128 40RDS-C1
L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
9102 3709 33S-12
Ford 460 MPFI
C6 Transmission
Oshkosh Chassis



Quick Link: Members Only Link To Send Me A Private Message
02-01-2010, 09:37 PM
Rusty
I haven't seen any leaks (but haven't followed the entire lines). The connections are good. The suction side should still be above atomospheric pressure,and would leak. There was no leakage on the 340 mile trip home, and the fluid showed no bubbles.

The pump seems to work normally, if I add about 6 oz of fluid after starting the engine.

More to the story...The pump received from Spartan isn't identical to the rebuilt one the PO installed. One return line is in a different place.

I did have the Saginaw part number, and after 1 hour+ searching the web, discovered Saginaw/Delphi is now "Nexteer". The folks there were very helpful, and the engineer is checking to see if the pump will work (initial assessment is that it will).

Naturally, while it was dry today (up until an hour ago), it's expected to continue to rain tomorrow.

It's always something!


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
02-01-2010, 11:25 PM
Shadow man
I had to replace the power steering pump on my jeep this summer. Had to order one, got it and one of the fittings for the lines was in the wrong spot. Turned out that in was the wrong pump in the right box. Had to reorder.
02-02-2010, 12:21 AM
Rusty
This is the correct pump for the part numbers, and confirmed with Saginaw.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields