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Major redos
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
posted
Today I will start some long over due repair and redesigns. With 260K miles on the clock it is time.

Handling issues:

1. Steering box comes off for rebuild and clearance resetting.
2. Drop link and ball joint replacement.
3. King pin replacement (never been done, still not bad but---)

Major redesign:

1. Entire cooling system overhaul
A. Turbo intercooler off to clean or replace if leaking.
B. Allison MD3060 trans cooler coming out and relocating.
C Engine radiator out to completely clean outside, it is good inside.
D. Reassemble radiator system without the trans cooler in between turbo intercooler and engine radiator. (was a BAD design to have a 3 radiator sandwich, can not clean the center radiator from front or rear!)

2. "P" pump recalibration, set more advanced timing, springs, throttle plate.
3. Clean and recalibrate (or replace) injectors.
3. Turbo examination and possible replacement.
4. Rework exhaust system to 4" SS pipe.
5. Explore new rear Watts linkage to correct issues.

I have until the middle of March to try to get all this done, BIG project but for another 10 years and 250K miles?? We will see!!

My server/website has been down but will try to post pictures after I get it up and running again.

Happy Holidays to all!


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/16
Picture of Steve VW
posted Hide Post
Whoa! Sounds like a handful of projects.

I just got 98Barth back from the shop. Valves adjusted, block heater replaced, starter replaced and… oh my, 9 exhaust manifold bolts drilled out and new exhaust manifold. confusion

I will post some photos of the work soon. I believe the corrosion of the mainfold bolts is preventable but the design of the manifold makes it likely over time. (I left my camera at the camp. When I get it back I will post a thread)

I will also shoot some pics of the side radiator layout for you.

Good luck with your "Mwrenching" on the coach. Mechanic


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3110 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
posted Hide Post
Making progress, found I had a radiator leak, didn't find it until investigating the loss of fluid. Turns out it would only leak when cold and the seam would seal up after coolant was at operation temperature. The core isn't that old so all that was needed was to have the side tanks removed, tinned and re-soldered. Symptoms sent me off on a wild goose chase until I got back in early November to trouble shoot.

Complete cooling assembly removed and found a very small leak in the turbo intercooler, so small that it really would not affect boost, however found lots of bent over fins around the fan periphery that was impeding the air flow, Straightening them now row by row.

After due consideration, I have decided NOT to redesign the radiator system. It has worked sorta OK for 260K miles, n ow with all the fin straightening and cleaning it should be much better and hope fully go for another 250K miles HaHa.

Exhaust manifold had one broken bolt, Made a drilling jig that would be mounted to 2 exhaust flanges with one small hole drilled as a guide for the broken bolt. These are 10.9 class bolt and are hard, so a drilling jig is really important to insure the drill will go in straight. Just before the drill broke thru at the end, the remains started to turn and I was able to with draw the broken remains with no damage to the head and threads.

Removed the manifold and replaced it with a two piece manifold, this will reduce the amount of stress as now there is a sliding portion at the middle, I would have liked to go three piece but the turbo mounts between #4 and #5 exhaust flanges. The new manifold also is pre-drilled for EGT sensor Much better location then I had before, it was aft turbo and would be 250-300 degrees cooler then before the turbo.

Found my coolant level sensor was not working, New sensor didn't fix so more trouble shooting on that.

Replacing all chassis high current wires from batteries to starter, to alternator, to paralleling relay, also running 4/0 cable from batteries to the front electrical panel.

Installing trans temperature sensor, My MD3060 (very early model) does not have the internal temp or oil level sensor.

Still have the front suspension and steering to deal with.

I have been taking pictures and will post once I have a chance to take a needed break.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
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Ed: What issues do you have to suggest a Watts linkage?


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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I have broken the frame, then after fixing and beefing up the frame, the track bar mount broke off the top of the diff. Very crappy weld but still it all points to using WAY to SHORT track bar. The bar that was there was only 19" long, over the spring travel the radius of the bar would try to move the diff +/-1/4" side to side. yes it did track well until it broke the mount off the diff.

So far I have been driving without any track bar or watts linkage. It is a bit noticeable particularly when NOT pulling the trailer. The rear wanders a bit and doesn't track well without the bar.

I keep searching for mounts/bushings/attachments/bars to use when I design a "Z" bar or watts linkage. I have very little room around or above the diff/axle. Found some heavy truck applications but would require more room than I have available.

I have been in contact with Spartan but no replies for many months.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
posted Hide Post
I will send you a picture of a Panhard installation that requires no welding. Does your frame have torque tubes? (You already know they limit diff twist and fore and aft movement). They provide a convenient place for the anchor point of the Panhard.


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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Thanks Tom, would like to see the pics. No torque tubes only leaf springs. With leaf springs you would expect minimal lateral movement, but it is there and noticeable when driving, particularly in a cross wind or meeting truck traffic.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 3/11
Picture of Tom  and Julie
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Ed: I found this from Spartan http://www.spartanchassis.com/...0081027088014143.pdf that indicates this as the suspension for your Breakaway. Have you seen this?


1993 32' Regency Wide Body, 4 speed Allison Trans, Front Entry door, Diamond Plate aluminum roof &
1981 Euro 22' w Chevy 350 engine and TH 400 tranny
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Houston Texas | Member Since: 12-19-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
posted Hide Post
Tom this was the suspension used for the Breakaway for air suspension, I only know of few Breakaways that had this type of suspension.



Mine is a full leaf spring set up front and rear, I have air assist bags but they are installed wrong and are of little help except to make the ride MUCH more harsh when inflated.

I believe John in AZ has air suspension like this shown from Spartan on his Breakaway.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/10
Picture of bud@YXY
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The Spartan info looks like the suspension on our '93 36 foot Breakaway. As I am not in AZ now , can't confirm if Panhard is the same configuration.

Bud


1993 Breakaway 36ft & 1977 20 ft
Spartan: air ride and brakes & P32(?)
Cummins: 8.3 litre 250hp, PACBrake
Allison 3060 (6 spd)
Front entry, side hallway
7.5 kw diesel gen.
1999 2dr Tracker 4X4 5spd, SMI Braking system
 
Posts: 245 | Location: Yukon--Arizona and around | Member Since: 06-09-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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The panhard bar used on this and most other full air systems would not solve my problem. The side to side position of the axle on full air systems is only controlled by a panhard bar. The axle can move vertically and even though the described panhard bar has a radius (21") by which the axle will move side to side as the axle moves up and down, the panhard bar does not have to fight any other suspension components during this movement.

On my system, the leaf springs will try to resist side to side movement but how well it does this is limited because of the rubber bushings and shackles. Panhard bar will reduce the side to side movement but will also have a big fight with the springs as the suspension moves up and down. The longer a single panhard bar is, less movement side to side caused by the panhard bar. My panhard bar is only 19" long. The radius of this bar will try to push the diff side to side almost +/- 1/4" as the spring would go thru full vertical movement.

Due to the side load fluctuations my frame cracked and when I repaired the frame, beefed up the frame to prevent future cracking, the next weakest spot failed, bracket broke off the top of the diff.

It was a crappy weld but still more importantly a crappy design! The panhard bar is way to short for this application. On Breakaways with smaller Dana 80 diffs, the panhard bar goes from the drivers side frame (same attach point as mine) but goes across to nearly the spring attachment point on the passenger side. MUCH LESS side loading than mine that goes to the top of the diff.

Dana's coach has the same rear axle/panhard bar and had a frame cracked in the same lactation as mine!

A watts linkage or what is also known as a "Z" bar linkage would eliminate all side to side loading of the frame/springs during full axle vertical movement. This design would not fight the springs and would keep the axle dead center resulting in less strain on the frame and much less NVH transfer to the interior.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 1884 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
The PDF of air suspension is a much newer model and not what is on my breakaway, will try to get some photos of the bar and installation later today. At any rate it is as "Wrench" says; his differential is much larger, and the bar on mine is the same half a---d shorty that he has and just adds more unwanted action to the rear. My bags are mounted to what looks like a heavy main spring leaf cut short but straight and under the axle. The job of the pan-hard bar is pretty much the same as with spring suspension except that there is no locator on the other end of the "short heavy spring/ bag support" All around an economy way to position a crucial part of the suspension. I do not travel far and because of the 4spd and 190hp not too fast, so may never address the problem.
 
Posts: 58 | Location: golden valley, az | Member Since: 02-05-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My brain just passed some bad gas. On my superformance S1 there is a Mumford link used to position the rear axle. While all the installations I have seen were on "super 7" and on a lower frame member attaching to an upper cross-member would be feasible. Not sure what that would do to the "roll-center" though. here is one link and a google search will yield more. http://www.not2fast.com/chassis/mumford.shtml
 
Posts: 58 | Location: golden valley, az | Member Since: 02-05-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/16
Picture of MichaelR
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Hey Steve,
What do you suggest in maintaining the condition of the exhaust manifold bolts? Mine appear to be all intact. Keeping them soaked with LPS 2 perhaps?


1994 Breakaway XL
34'
6CTA 8.3
Banks
Allison 5 speed
Gillig
9310-3888-33XHG-7C
 
Posts: 147 | Location: Greeneville Tennessee "Barth Full-Timers" | Member Since: 05-11-2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/16
Picture of Steve VW
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelR:
Hey Steve,
What do you suggest in maintaining the condition of the exhaust manifold bolts? Mine appear to be all intact. Keeping them soaked with LPS 2 perhaps?


Yep. If parked for long time (especially damp climate) I will spray them. (Easy to do, quick, can't hurt, might help.) After a few years I might pull them out one at a time, apply antisieze and retorque. Mechanic


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
 
Posts: 3110 | Location: Kalkaska, MI | Member Since: 02-04-2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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