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Insulation
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
posted
OK, here's one for the group!!

I replaced the interior surround on the Fantastic Fan, compliments of Fantastic Fan, they supplied all of the things needed to correct broken plastic.

Here is where it gets interesting. When I removed the surround, I could look into the space between the headliner and the roof---much to my surprise, there was NO fiberglass or other sort of insulation except the plastic bubble stuff with a foil backing that was attached to the headliner. I took my boroscope and went in as far as it would reach and there was nothing!!!

Then I went to the side of the coach and took off the middle clearance light and the same, only the bubble insulation.

I noticed that the fixtures such as lights (off) etc get extremely hot when the coach is sitting in the bright sun. Further I noticed that the coach seemed to cool down much faster then my SOB but dismissed that because the Barth is bigger.

This situation will be addressed and fixed. Just wondering if any of you have noticed the same thing and/or made any correction.

My first thought is to use some sort of fireproof, water proof blow in insulation, I think I could get 90% it insulated thru the fixtures and A/C cut-outs but it would have to be a small grained insulation. Wouldn't be to anxious to blow fibreglass insulation around--

The floor has at least 2-3 inches of insulation under it but why not the walls and ceiling?? Did they think that bubble stuff was good?

????????


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
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My '94 has odd insulation - something like highly compacted fiberglas. Very nasty stuff to get out of drill bits.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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Rusty, do you know how thick it is? is that in the ceiling or in the walls or both?

I have something like that but seems to be a bonding agent for the plastic bubble stuff, or some fibrous coating on the aluminum skin.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/16
Captain Doom
Picture of Rusty
posted Hide Post
So far, it's everywhere. It's about 1" thick on ceiling and walls. My FW tank is insulated by the plastic bubble stuff, but that's the only place I've encountered it.


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
 
Posts: 8408 | Location: Brooker, FL, USA | Member Since: 09-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 12/10
Picture of ccctimtation
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I am replacing headliner on my boat and wanting to add insulation, currently there is none. The last thing I want is condensation with its attendant mold potential. The next last thing I want is squeaky foam against the top. Best information I have found is to use closed cell type to avoid the of potential of condensation, and moisture absorption. I also would like future access to the space behind the headliner to access wiring. Recently I visited a builder in New Brunswick and got an idea that I am planning on pursuing that is potentially relevant for all of us. This builder used velcro to attach the headliner panels which they fabricated in inter-meshing panels.
My plan is to use the vinyl headliner backed by thin felt to the inside stapled with velcro on the back to 3/8 ply. Inside the velcro edging I will back and bond the foam to the ply. Sounds easy, no? what else do we have to do with our time and obsessions?


Money can't buy poverty
 
Posts: 893 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Member Since: 10-09-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Gunner
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"the plastic bubble stuff with a foil backing that was attached to the headliner."
My understanding is: The "foil" sheet was generally the only thing used after about 1980. It is reflective, insulates well, and can be fitted perfectly between all the metal studs and struts. Although the metal "frame" is sprayed with (asphalt undercoating?) it still sweats condensation and the "foil" is unaffected by water; fiberglass batts hold water and deteriorate rapidly when damp. Also, the depth of the sidewall cavity is small (what - 1"?), since it is dependent on the depth of the metal "studs", and 3/4" reflective foil sheets probably provide the same -or more- Rvalue than 1" of fluffy pink stuff.
I am not sure of the reason for using certain materials, but it is certainly a good reason.
P.S. I have vague memory of an early Regal brochure displaying a picture of an empty coach frame with pink fluffy fiberglass full-thick insulation?????


"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood
 
Posts: 573 | Location: Republic of Texas | Member Since: 12-31-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/19
Picture of Bill N.Y.
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quote:
Originally posted by Gunner:
P.S. I have vague memory of an early Regal brochure displaying a picture of an empty coach frame with pink fluffy fiberglass full-thick insulation?????


We have a member who redid the back end of a toaster to get a queen bed in his Barth.

dustyjeeper redo is located here.


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Regis Widebody1990 Barth Regis Widebody
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L-10 Cummins
Allison MT647 Transmission
Spartan Chassis
Regal Conversion1991 Medical Lab Conversion
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Posts: 7314 | Location: Newburgh, New York | Member Since: 05-10-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glassnose Aficionado
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/09
Picture of Danny Z
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I used Ultra Barrier when I redid the doghouse. I did some swappin for it so I never knew it was so expensive. I covered the doghouse inside and out, using glue, then tin tabs and a stapler, then Barth tape. It's extremely quiet, both idling and at speed.
http://www.soundprooffoam.com/ultra-barrier-plus.html


79 Barth Classic
 
Posts: 3672 | Location: Venice Fl. | Member Since: 07-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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This is the picture that I had in mind and probably was expecting.



The air gap between the headliner and the roof aluminum is nearly 2 inches. I also agree that anything that would react to moisture is not a good idea, leaks and sweating will always be a problem. Still, there must be something that could be used that would be better then air!

I also used UltraBarrier in the doghouse of my SOB, works well but yes, lost of $$$. I will be lining the engine room with that stuff later, noise is good already but will want to reduce some of the heat that does get in from the engine. Pulling into a rest stop after a long run, it is pretty warm back there for a bit.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 1/11
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How about using spray foam insulation? I would consider using a product like this if I were to re-insulate my toaster. There are at least a couple DIY kits from differnt folks on-line.

http://www.fomofoam.com/NewHomeBuilders.htm

I have not tried it, or have any association with the product, but it looks like the hot lick. My SOB is basicly a big foam board sandwich the manufactor used a lot of spray on foam in about every crack and corner. It is 15 years old and the foam is hanging on a lot better than I thought it would (it had been spray painted)


Doug Bywaters
Near Skyline Drive Virginia!
 
Posts: 122 | Location: Flint Hill VA | Member Since: 09-29-2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/12
Formally known as "Humbojb"
Picture of Jim and Tere
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A few years ago, I bought a Ford window van, new, completely stripped inside. All it had were the two front seats. I drove to a local boat manufacturers plant, taped off the windows, dash, etc and they foamed the whole thing, roof, sidewalls, etc. Took it home, smoothed it down, covered the roof and side walls with nice paneling and you talk about warm in the winter and cool in the summer? It was great. If I was re doing a Barth, that's what I'd do.


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
 
Posts: 3566 | Location: madisonville tn usa | Member Since: 02-19-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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I have seen that type of insulation process but unfortunately, I am not going to tear down the interior to go to that extreme.

I have talked with a number of manufacturers about the possibility of blowing in or injecting in a foam based insulation and there is some positive indications that it can be done, more importantly achieve the results that I am looking for.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glassnose Aficionado
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 2/09
Picture of Danny Z
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The only issue I'd be concerned with is expansion foam. "Great Stuff" type aerosols don't discriminate where they expand, they just DO! Read the disclaimers on any residential window or door maker and you'll see that they won't warranty any product installed with this type product.


79 Barth Classic
 
Posts: 3672 | Location: Venice Fl. | Member Since: 07-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 10/08
Picture of MWrench
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Yeah, understand about the "rattle can" foam. I don't intend to use any of that stuff, some of it is advertised as "window and door" safe, but--

I am looking at more of a commercial injectable foam, and a process that wouldn't leave too many voids. I am still thinking about the posibility of a blow in type of insulation as well.

When I have the time, I am going to look at how I can access the various areas and that might determine if I do it and how I do it. This would definitely require a lot of planning.


Ed
94 30' Breakaway #3864
30-BS-6B side entry
230 Cummins, Allison 6 speed
Spartan chassis
K9DVC
 
Posts: 2177 | Location: Los Gatos, CA | Member Since: 12-08-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Supporting Member of Barthmobile.com 6/12
Formally known as "Humbojb"
Picture of Jim and Tere
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Watching some of the DIY shows like 'This Old House',and 'Holmes on Homes', I've seen some 'low expansion' foam used to guard against the problems stated. Maybe one of the good home insulation companies in your area is equipped to do it.


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
 
Posts: 3566 | Location: madisonville tn usa | Member Since: 02-19-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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