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454 Mini starter

This topic can be found at:
http://www.barthmobile.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431087061/m/1033959187

03-21-2014, 03:20 PM
Steve VW
454 Mini starter
The weather here in the Keys just screams for shadetree mechanics to work on their favorite motor home...

Modern starters are amazing. Between permanent magnets and gear reduction, they are smaller, lighter and more powerful than ever.
A few years ago I replaced the 18 lb starter in my airplane with a new one weighing 7.6 lbs! Got me thinking... hmm

The starter on Barth was OK most of the time, only twice I had slow cranking when hot. It was a real pain to get at the wires tucked between the engine, heat shield and headers. I had to remove the starter to get at the wires and vice versa to reinstall. A real PITA



I bought a new starter. Tuff Stuff 6550B made in Cleveland, Ohio (Summit #TFF-6550B). Is much smaller, way lighter. Good for up to 11:1 compression.





Another great feature: the starter mount has many holes that allow you to rotate the solenoid any place it fits best.



I rotated the solenoid so that it is now hanging down. The wires are easy to attach after the starter is in and they are well clear of the hot pipes now.





It even starts the engine! (cranks about as fast as before, supposedly less current, though) I was a bit leery since this starter has 10 teeth, the old one had 9, but the starter manufacturer said it would work on either small or big block Chevy with 12¾" (153 teeth) or 14" (168 teeth) flywheel. So far it works great, I'll report when it has been heat soaked and road tested. Thumbs Up


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
03-21-2014, 09:16 PM
Steve VW
Finally got the pics through Photobucket. Took quite a while... Anyway, I like this starter, way easier to install and connect.


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
03-21-2014, 10:35 PM
Mogan David
Hey, Mister, don't be scratching those beautiful headers messing around with that starter and stuff
mechanic
03-22-2014, 07:17 AM
Steve VW
yeah, I'm going to have to wash my hands BEFORE I work on the engine. Now if I could just get some good Harley chrome on the engine, too, I'd have a real showpiece! mechanic

Just wait till I get to my dream project in a few more miles: Chevy 454 HO crate motor, 425 hp and 500 lb/ft of torque with new 480LE overdrive trans... confusion

This Barth addiction just won't stop. Tooling Along


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
03-22-2014, 06:08 PM
Rusty
I think we may have an auction item at Milford III. Winner trades coaches with SteveVW for a year - wonder how many things he'll fix or upgrade! mechanic


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
03-22-2014, 06:49 PM
bill h
I use a Delco mini starter on my 502. I favor the Delco because parts are available.

It will start the 502 (which has a LOT of advance) with a 750cc motorcycle battery.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
03-22-2014, 07:51 PM
Steve VW
quote:
Originally posted by Rusty:
I think we may have an auction item at Milford III. Winner trades coaches with SteveVW for a year - wonder how many things he'll fix or upgrade!


Oh man, does this mean I have to study Cummins, Cats and air brakes, too? confusion

I figured someday when the Regal is mostly done I might need a diesel pusher to round out the stable, but... hmm

Oh well, it's a dirty job (literally!) but I guess someone has to do it... mechanic ROTFLMAO


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
03-22-2014, 09:29 PM
ccctimtation
Tried to put the mini starter on the new reverse rotation engine in the boat two years ago since that was the only way to install the engine/trans as coupled. The new starters are not available in reverse rotation. Took it all apart put the older flywheel and starter on the new engine.


I was taught to respect my elders but it is getting harder to find them!
03-23-2014, 12:30 AM
Rusty
quote:
Oh man, does this mean I have to study Cummins, Cats and air brakes, too?


Yes


Rusty


MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP; built-to-order by Peninsular Engines:  Hi-pop injectors, gear-driven camshaft, non-waste-gated, high-output turbo, 18:1 pistons.  Fuel economy increased by 15-20%, power, WOW!"StaRV II"

'94 28' Breakaway: MilSpec AMG 6.5L TD 230HP

Nelson and Chester, not-spoiled Golden Retrievers

Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering.
- Arthur C. Clarke

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I've been searching thirty years to find her and thank her - W. C. Fields
03-23-2014, 12:47 PM
bill h
quote:
Originally posted by ccctimtation:
Tried to put the mini starter on the new reverse rotation engine in the boat two years ago since that was the only way to install the engine/trans as coupled. The new starters are not available in reverse rotation. Took it all apart put the older flywheel and starter on the new engine.


I'm in a similar spot with my boat. The mini starter works only down in the bilge. The top mount works only with a reverse rotation starter, which is not available from GM in a mini starter


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
03-23-2014, 03:08 PM
Jim & Barb
Steve,

These new type starters are great and they are used in a lot of rods, custom cars and as you know airplanes.
A word of caution I heard from the rodders, if your engine doesn't start right away "DO NOT CONTINUE TO CRANK" as these starters will not hold up to long cranking.
You may know more about this.

Jim
03-23-2014, 06:56 PM
Steve VW
This is the kind of discussion I love to see with project postings! Thanks to all for the feedback. Thumbs Up

I considered the Delco but I'm not sure it can be reclocked to fit in easily.

I have also heard these mini starters will get hot real quick. Manufacturer says 30 secs MAX with at least 2 minutes to cool down.

Fortunately, 86 Barth starts very well. Seems good so far. Thumbs Up


8607-3346-33TFPOB------9708-M0037-37MM-01
86 Regal SE 33 Tag axle--"98" Monarch 37
Chev P3(7) 454TBI--------Cummins 8.3 300 hp
400 hp fuel injected-------6 spd Allison, Spartan MM
03-23-2014, 08:45 PM
bill h
quote:
Originally posted by Steve VW:


I considered the Delco but I'm not sure it can be reclocked to fit in easily.


My 502 with Thorleys takes the Delco mini very well. Being old school, I still use a heat shield.

quote:
I have also heard these mini starters will get hot real quick.


An MSD unit really makes it fire off. Kinda like the old Bendix Shower of Sparks on aircraft magnetos.

Or a Model T coil, for that matter.


.

84 30T PeeThirty-Something, 502 powered
07-04-2017, 08:50 AM
Jim and Tere
Our starter had the overheating issue. Wouldn't restart until it cooled down issue. Bought a mini from Jim Thomas owner of Smith Auto Repair & Electric out of Washington State. I bought a starter and many electrical parts from him. He walked me through many Barthasaurus electrical issues(all those red wires ^%$#%*_+). I sent him drawings & pictures etc & he was very helpful. If I couldn't get in touch with Bill N I would call Jim.

http://smithae.com/sure-power.html 800-822-0819
503-692-5360

Tere


Jim and TereJim and Tere

1985 Regal
29' Chevy 454 P32
8411 3172 29FP3B
Gear Vendor 6 Speed Tranny
07-07-2017, 05:35 PM
Ham Radio HF Mobile
Good morning, Jim and Tere;

Boy, did you give me a surprise.

In your listing of a source for small engine starters for the Chevrolet 454 cid V8 gasoline engine, you listed as a source for those starters and other electrical supplies for Recreational Vehicles (including motor homes) as one in Washington state; Smith Auto Repair and Electric.

While reading that, I was thinking; "I recognize that business name." When I checked, sure enough, that is Smith Auto Repair and Electric on the West side of South 3rd Avenue just South of West Yakima Avenue in Yakima, Washington.

However, for people who may be trying to contact them, there is an error in the listing on their web site for the regular direct dial telephone number for calling them. The 1-800 number is correct. THE 1-509-453-8295 NUMBER IS WRONG.

The correct direct dial telephone number is:

1-509-453-8275

This should not be a problem for too much longer, because they are working on updating their web site or web page at this time. Now they also know about the conflict with the listed direct dial telephone number on their web site.

Enjoy;

Ralph, Latté Land, Washington